Where is the power in Wing Chun?

[ovine king]

It's not actually an improper movement as having your hand on the wrong side happens a lot, especially when you start to get really close. The more common reason for having your hand on the wrong side is if you've had your bong sau collapse and you couldn't turn it in time. If you can't feed tan sau or biu sau under the bridge then your only means of "escape" would be to relax/drop the bong sau elbow and "leak" through using a faat sau/back hand/lap sau/whatever.

Also, there is actually a concept of "feeling" and that is contained in the idea of the asking/receiving hand; mun/jeet sau... (yes, the same jeet as found in "jeet kune do") and the basic version of each is taught as a different thing at each stage.

In sil lim tau, the basic jeet sau would be the pak sau which is taught initially as a stop/check. as you progress, this becomes a guiding check. Go further and the pak sau checks then becomes the hit in one movement (very general so please forgive me).

in the subsequent forms, you are essentially taught a new concept of mun sau/jeet sau using a different "base" move as the "seed".

however, while this is a testing movement, it's primary use is in receiving that initial attack and is never actively used a a feeling/probing move like a boxing jab often is.

I've sparred boxers and i am a big fan of their jab; at least I am a fan of the jab that my boxing friend used which was slightly different in that the hand doesn't also start from the shoulder. When he jabs, he only pops his hip at the time of completion of the jab; which is more less the same as how i "pop" my hip for punches.

when he moves, his stance is more or less the same and actually resembles hung kuen when he punches in that it switches from something that resembles a standard horse stance to something that resembles a bow ad arrow stance.

the use of the body is pretty similar to wing chun; it just looks different and like hung kuen, it is the same but different... if you get what i mean.

[KungFuLuvva]

ok ok i got a little clip of the wing chun back fist. this is my dad's old teacher, steve swift. http://www.swiftwingchun.org/video/demos/2002_8_BeginnersBasic1_19/BeginnersBasic1_19_56k.mov

your right about wing chun not typically wasting movement, but this backfist is often used as a jab/icebreaker. its like usually you expect that he's going to block it, and you traps set up for him when he does.

[ovine king]

...but that's still not how a boxer uses his jab.

[fightingsticks]

who cares,it works.

[stonecrusher69]

I hear steve swift is very good.I was not able to open the link.how did he do the back fist. Does he keep his elbow in or out?

[KungFuLuvva]

...but that's still not how a boxer uses his jab.

yea i was trying to say, in this case, it wasnt quite used as a jab, but quite often that's the type of punch wing chun practitioners use for jabbing/icebreaker , whatever you want to call it. i just showed that clip because it was teh first one i found that even showed what i was talking about at all.

I hear steve swift is very good.I was not able to open the link.how did he do the back fist. Does he keep his elbow in or out?

yes steve swift taught my dad for about 9 years, my dad and my sifu phil nearing were in his group of first student just when he came to chicago from hong kong. my dad says he's one of the most deadliest men in america and i definately trust his judgement. im not quite sure what you mean by elbow being in or out, sry. it's kind of like a snapping punch for when your angled off from your opponent like a jabbing position.

[stonecrusher69]

In W.C. you are supposed to keep your elbow in to generate power and to protect the side of your ribs.When I do back fist its similar to the basic WC staright punch when you keep the elbow down and in except its a back fist.(meaning your hitting with the back of the hand instead of the knuckles)