Shotokan a weak style?

[y2_sub]

I wouldn't say that shotokan is a week style , however , the main problem with shotokan is the high number of Mcshotokan dojos .

[Samurai Shotokan]

I've been told its a strong style(but anything is under proper instruction) I think Master Jules told that to me when i first talked to him online but dont qoute me on that.

[kenpo_fighter]

I'm not going to disagree with this statement, the more I look at other schools (shotokan), the more I agree with it.

I trained shotokan, with kicks to the legs, sweeps, ground fighting, etc...All pulled from the kata. I can identify 2 distinct throws in Heian Shodan. I hit the makiwara untill my hands were bleeding, to me that was karate do.

But the more I look around on the web, it looks like my beloved art has gone completely sports related......

Anyone outhere other than me who practices shotokan the way I do?

though, i do not shotokan karate, i can relate and identify with your style of training, as, i, too train in the traditional ways of the fighting arts. unfortunately, todays american society feels that everything should come easily with very little or without any effort at all. turning our beloved real, fighting arts into the sorry, watered down, american versions of themselves which has brain-washed america's society thinking they have real martial artists instead of martial actors.

not saying that all, but a majority of todays american society, especially the younger generation, is a "right now" society and cannot even take one punch. they want everything, including rank, right then and there. and with your stereotypical "soccer mom" controlling the majority of america's "middle class" dollars, she'll go to the "mcdojo" that matches every dollar with rank. and expecting that the local dojo is a daycare center instead of a training facility geared to training real fighters like yourself.

then the "soccer mom" complains that her child is getting "abused" and start a whole commotion saying that the dojo is ridiculous and excessively & uneccessarily violent. my comeback is "if you want your child to participate in something easy, let them go out for football, basketball, or even baseball."

i've seen this happen in my own dojo as a child coming up in the ranks in japan. a bunch of american mothers got together and complained to my japanese sensei saying that his training methods were too brutal and needed to change his methods. i thank god sensei didn't change.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Just out of curiousity, what do you all consider the "traditional way of training"? I see the phrase tosed around a lot and never explained.

[pers]

My observation of Shotokan is that it suffers from poor body mechanics. In an attempt to be powerful, the way I've seen Shotokan karateka move actually robs them of the very thing they seek. Their stances deadlock the transfer of weight and energy into what otherwise would be really strong techniques. It looks good, and I've seen Shotokan guys train HARD, but in the end they are their own worst enemies in terms of moving and execution, based purely on what I've seen.

this is not the way we trained in shotokan ,but there are shotokan clubs like that ,just like anyother style that , but to generalise them all together is wrong .

shotokan the way I learned is about Ippon. there fore great emphasis is put on the perfection of the technique .to achieve that you need speed and power ,so thse dead lock stances that you have seen in hawaie would obvoiusly not work ! but believe there many shotokan guys that can move very fast .through the process of my training I hav had my first hand experience .

[makiwaraman]

Just out of curiousity, what do you all consider the "traditional way of training"? I see the phrase tosed around a lot and never explained.

Good question, IMHO as your signiture states karate as a martial art and not a sport, The budo spirit, the traditional etiquette,character devolopement the hard training e.g. conditioning, makiwara-mushin really does devolope a more spiritial state. I dont yet own all the traditional hojo undo equipment I would consider this as part of the old ways. But this is just my take on the old ways and I am sure it means different things to all that say it. What do you consider to be the old ways?

regards maki

[wyx]

My observation of Shotokan is that it suffers from poor body mechanics. In an attempt to be powerful, the way I've seen Shotokan karateka move actually robs them of the very thing they seek. Their stances deadlock the transfer of weight and energy into what otherwise would be really strong techniques. It looks good, and I've seen Shotokan guys train HARD, but in the end they are their own worst enemies in terms of moving and execution, based purely on what I've seen.

You are obeserving pre 1st dan Basics. All stances long with hips square (if we take fromt stance for example). Shotokan is taught very gradually these stances are taught from the beginning to strengthen the body more than anything.

When you reach around 1st dan the stances used are slightly higher your whole body is a coiled spring from your toes thru hips to the extension of the punch. However, unless you are taught the basics of each stance you will never fully comprehend the eveolution of shotokan technqiues and the body mechanics later on.

This is why shotokan karetka look so good, becasue we constantly go back to basics for training purposes, so our technique is very finely tuned.

TBH You cant base an opinion on Shotokan through observation alone.

To answer the original question, No Shotokan is not a weak style. I would say that only kyokushinkai is stonger.

[Enviroman]

My observation of Shotokan is that it suffers from poor body mechanics. In an attempt to be powerful, the way I've seen Shotokan karateka move actually robs them of the very thing they seek. Their stances deadlock the transfer of weight and energy into what otherwise would be really strong techniques. It looks good, and I've seen Shotokan guys train HARD, but in the end they are their own worst enemies in terms of moving and execution, based purely on what I've seen.

You are obeserving pre 1st dan Basics. All stances long with hips square (if we take fromt stance for example). Shotokan is taught very gradually these stances are taught from the beginning to strengthen the body more than anything.

When you reach around 1st dan the stances used are slightly higher your whole body is a coiled spring from your toes thru hips to the extension of the punch. However, unless you are taught the basics of each stance you will never fully comprehend the eveolution of shotokan technqiues and the body mechanics later on.

This is why shotokan karetka look so good, becasue we constantly go back to basics for training purposes, so our technique is very finely tuned.

TBH You cant base an opinion on Shotokan through observation alone.

To answer the original question, No Shotokan is not a weak style. I would say that only kyokushinkai is stonger.

One of the major problems I have with many styles of karate is that it is extraordinarily rigid until post-blackbelt levels (in some cases it is always rigid). Many BB forms show the "soft core" of the style...but why wait so long to reach that soft core?

[wyx]

My observation of Shotokan is that it suffers from poor body mechanics. In an attempt to be powerful, the way I've seen Shotokan karateka move actually robs them of the very thing they seek. Their stances deadlock the transfer of weight and energy into what otherwise would be really strong techniques. It looks good, and I've seen Shotokan guys train HARD, but in the end they are their own worst enemies in terms of moving and execution, based purely on what I've seen.

You are obeserving pre 1st dan Basics. All stances long with hips square (if we take fromt stance for example). Shotokan is taught very gradually these stances are taught from the beginning to strengthen the body more than anything.

When you reach around 1st dan the stances used are slightly higher your whole body is a coiled spring from your toes thru hips to the extension of the punch. However, unless you are taught the basics of each stance you will never fully comprehend the eveolution of shotokan technqiues and the body mechanics later on.

This is why shotokan karetka look so good, becasue we constantly go back to basics for training purposes, so our technique is very finely tuned.

TBH You cant base an opinion on Shotokan through observation alone.

To answer the original question, No Shotokan is not a weak style. I would say that only kyokushinkai is stonger.

One of the major problems I have with many styles of karate is that it is extraordinarily rigid until post-blackbelt levels (in some cases it is always rigid). Many BB forms show the "soft core" of the style...but why wait so long to reach that soft core?

Thats just the way of karate, Cant run before you can walk mentality. Not many people start karate and have the dedication to reach BB. When you get to 1st Dan you are just considered to be a 'serious' student and you start learning the 'good' stuff. BB is just the beginning in Shotokan Karate.

[MadMatt]

There are no weak martial arts only weak students or instructors.

Look at the ability of their black belts, compar them with other black belts from other styles and make up your own mind.

Strength is as much mental as it is physical.