Moore's Shou Shu

[classiccopy]

White Warlock, Thanks for the reply. I had heard tidbits of what you said over the years but you really filled in the gaps. I now know that long term that would not be a place that I could be at. I still might be tempted to check out a couple classes just to see what they have tweaked out of curiosity. I will keep looking for a good kenpo dojo long term.

[White Warlock]

I wish you all the luck. A note is that 'kenpo' schools vary substantially, as the name 'kenpo' for a time was used almost as liberally as the word 'karate' (but clearly not as liberally as the words, 'kung fu").

[Shou Tu]

I wish you all the luck. A note is that 'kenpo' schools vary substantially, as the name 'kenpo' for a time was used almost as liberally as the word 'karate' (but clearly not as liberally as the words, 'kung fu").

White Warlock as i cannot send a pm as of yet where is it that you gained your information on Moore's Shou Shu. Alot of what you posted i have seen on a kenpo forum from a black belt involved in a system that did not get along with the Moore's family. everything you posted from the article came from your own interpretation of an article that was written back in the late 70's early 80's.

Where besides the posted article did your info come from other than people posting hearsay on another forum?

Salute,

[White Warlock]

White Warlock as i cannot send a pm as of yet where is it that you gained your information on Moore's Shou Shu.

If you do indeed send me a pm later, by all means ensure it is with respect and without profanity. Thank you.

Seriously though, i've read your posts at another site and am aware you are courteous and respectful. Welcome to karateforums.

As to the question, a multitude of sources including interviews from many shou shu practitioners, and researching comments made by practitioners. But also, i obtained information first hand, by visiting the schools and watching. I cannot claim to know the art, having not studied it for an extended period of time, but it does demonstrate, and has been noted by actual shou shu practitioners of the art, that the core of the system is kempo karate.

Alot of what you posted i have seen on a kenpo forum from a black belt involved in a system that did not get along with the Moore's family.

In truth, much of what i posted was obtained sometime back directly from shou shu websites, and from the interview with the founder that is ages past, but also from statements made by various practitioners, both shou shu and otherwise. That is not the totality of the post, but it is the majority. As to the black belt you are inferring, i believe he is an 8th degree black belt in kempo karate. I am not aware of animosity between Tracy kempo karate and Moore's shou shu, nor do i believe there is any, so i feel this tangent should cease. Thanks.

everything you posted from the article came from your own interpretation of an article that was written back in the late 70's early 80's.

That is not correct and i kindly request you not make leap assumptions of how my mind works. It is not interpretation, but fact. Information presented in that article, by the founder of shou shu, was incorrect. As i did not speculate on 'why' he presented incorrect information, so too you should not speculate on whether i have an ulterior motive, other than to present the information and the associated indications of fallacy in the knowledge base of the founder.

Where besides the posted article did your info come from other than people posting hearsay on another forum?

Your understanding of hearsay seems to be incorrect, in that i did not present any comments from people posting hearsay. My presentation of thier comments is known as quoting or paraphasing, but what they stated was direct-source. I stated above where the information was obtained from.

If you wish to discuss this issue publicly, i am amenable to that. I think this community can benefit from open discourse, as long as it abides by the rules of this community (if it doesn't the posts get deleted, so that really sort of throws a wrench in things). I request, however, that you present verifiable information to counter-claim, if that is your intent.

I know you are a proponent of shou shu, and i think it is important for me to let you know that i do not have an issue with the system. As far as i'm concerned, it is a valid art. I am not keen, however, with the manner in which many, possibly most, of the schools are managed, nor of the pricing systems. They are far too costly for what is provided and the schools offer far too much mystique for my tastes. I am also not comfortable with the historical inconsistencies presented by the founder (sincerity is a big issue with me).

I also don't entirely agree with the ongoing belief that any system can present a martial artist who can battle multiple opponents simultaneously, unless of course those opponents were all of 'lessor' or 'no' skill. I have fought multiple opponents on many occasions and have found there to be viable ways for this to be done. However, when handling persons of same or similar skill level, 'multiple' opponent defense is not all that effective.

That is not to say it cannot be done, but i've never been a proponent of comparing oneself to the non-fighter, the drunk, the group of rowdy teens, or the lay person working at a keyboard. These persons are not practitioners, and it is the practitioners that have taken an ill route, or non-practitioners utilizing weapons, that i consider to be of importance. These are the persons i must learn to defend against, to neutralize, to eliminate... not six lame drunks who think a fight is to stand there and take turns punching.

Well met

[Shou Tu]

I take the comment of it being a valid art well said.

pricing I cant say i know what i pay is much less than all the schools around the area for more time in the school.

the history as far as i am concerned starts with Da' Shifu Sr.

if the comment about the dance studio is true. I commend the family on being able to make it into martial arts. But the kenpo aspect of the art is in the techniques, they were used as a vehicle only, the names may be the same but the movement and weapons are used totally different.

I wasnt alive in the 40's and events in ones life i wasnt apart of i have to take as truth since i cant disprove them with a solid foundation of evidence.

I know what i learn works and honestly that is all i need to know. We are taught under a guidance and standard that is held throughout our training.

If we cant meet those standards we dont pass.

For those that wish to learn more about what we teach, they are more than welcome to visit a school and ask questions.

Salute,

[White Warlock]

I take the comment of it being a valid art well said.

If that is all that you gleaned from all that i wrote, then i have failed.

[Shou Tu]

I take the comment of it being a valid art well said.

If that is all that you gleaned from all that i wrote, then i have failed.

That is all I wished to get from it, as i have heard most of what was posted before. and i believe I posted my thoughts on the subject.

If you feel you have failed I am sorry.