A Better Scenario

[DCLXVI]

For Guys

Your out to dinner at a restaraunt with your girlfriend/fiance/wife (whichever applies) and your harrassed by an individual sitting at a nearby table who is trying to hit on your girl. It's obvious that he's been drinking, so you try and get a new table. Upon completing your dinner, you are heading to your car when you realize the same man that was harrassing your girl earlier is following out to your car with a buddy. You try to ignore him, but as you attempt to get open your car, he steps in front of your door.

What would you do? - Give as many possible answers as you'd like, from tring to use negotiating to actually having to fight if you believe it would come down to it. For additional information, both individuals are about six feet in height and look to be rather well built.

For Girls

(Stereotypical - I do appologize) Your walking down the street, a couple of guys notice you as you walk by and begin to whistle and shout obscenities at you. Ignoring them, you easily realize they are following as the whistling and the gestures and choice words are thrown at you. Before you realize what happens, you are grabbed and quickly thrown into an alley way. You manage to maintain your balance by using the wall but you now realize that these men have more than harrassment on there mind.

What would you do? - Give as many possible answers as you'd like, from tring to use negotiating to actually having to fight if you believe it would come down to it. For additional information, one man is rather large, not overly obese, but a rotund man. Stands at about five feet ten. The other is smaller in size, but taller in stature, around six two. Lanky.

[Enviroman]

Well for scenario 1:

It's a tough one. I'd try and push him out of the way but if it escalated into a fight, I'd have to fight, i guess. I'd just try to end it as quickly as I could and leave (calling the police).

To be brutally honest, if it seemed like he was geared up for a fight, I'd probably strike him while he's in the middle of his quinessential pre-fight tough guy speech. Two on one and my girl may be in trouble? I'm not fighting fair, I'm fighting to escape with as little harm done to me or my girl.

[scottnshelly]

I always use the same rule: avoid, prevent, dissuade, control, end. If I wasn’t able to avoid the guy, and wasn’t able to prevent him from approaching me, then my next step would be to dissuade him from confrontation. There are many useful techniques of dissuasion: ignoring, humor, distraction, reasoning or the ever popular intimidation. I’ve always defeated my opponents at the dissuasion phase. If for some reason I was unable to dissuade him from a confrontation, then I would control and then end the fight as fast as possible.

Of course, depending on the situation (wife and/or child involved) some of the phases go pretty quickly. If my wife was involved like the scenario indicates, I might be more apt to quickly try to dissuade and then control the confrontation before he strikes. In other, calmer, situations, I would likely try to avoid confrontation at all costs.

Don’t forget that your most valuable defenses are getting help (calling the police) and getting away (getting in the car and driving off).

[ShotokanKid]

Scenario 1:

I would:

Remain calm,

ask him what he wants

attempt to get him to leave us alone by trying to calm him down

If everything fails, I will make sure my girlfriend is in a relatively safe position, and either kick the guy in the groin, do an armbar, or knock him down with a side thrust kick. I might also try spinning him around, putting him in a rear choke hold and using him as a shield from his buddy.

[White Warlock]

scottnshelly's response is similar to mine, with a few comments:

There seems to be a few pages of opportunity missed in the story rendering. If the guy was hitting up on my girlfriend, i would allow my girlfriend to handle the situation. If she wants to be with the guy, then why the frick would i want to be with her?!?

Seriously though, i would respect my girlfriend's ability to handle the situation appropriately and this could deescalate it far better than if i were to 'be macho' and intervene. If, on the other hand, she is unable, i may find it appropriate to 'offer the guy a drink' (one possible approach). If i deem this may be a problem situation, I'll ask my girlfriend for a few minutes, then i would join him at the bar, buy him a drink, and kinda buddy up with him for a few minutes. In the buddying up, i'll try to quickly gauge him and figure out his likes/dislikes and attitude towards women. I'll then try to speak his language, if you will, and let him know i'm trying to score.

In this initial approach, i'm hoping for the best case scenario, which is that he'll stick with the comraderie i provided and give me room to 'score.' If, on the other hand, this doesn't work, i can be comfortable in knowing that the situation can escalate in 'public' and with my girlfriend out of harms' way.

Moving on... and assuming i was duped, i leave the restaurant/bar and find him and another guy outside following us, i would again gauge the situation and opt not to reach the car. I would, instead, offer the keys to my gf, along with my cell phone (while we're still walking casually, of course), and tell her to nonchalantly walk to the car, get in, lock the doors, start the damn thing, and call 911. Hopefully she'll try to pick me up afterwards (gad, i hope i don't have doofus for a girlfriend this time).

I, on the other hand, will allow her to go to the car and act like i left something in the restaurant/bar, yet will not walk directly towards those guys, but at an angle. If they pursue me, all the better. If they continue after her, i will need to catch their attention with mild banter. Possibly say something like, "hey, you got a light?"

The goal here is to seperate my dependency (her) from me, present her with the tools she needs to defend herself, and then approach the threat with the 'intent' of deescalating it before it even has a chance of going any further than 'perception of threat.'

If, on the other hand, i'm a total doofus, and i allow them to get that close to me and her, and he blocks my path to the car door... well, frankly, unless there was some very significant signals being presented that they wanted to talk, i would strike fast, furiously, and repeatedly. First the one most likely to assault (which is, oddly enough, usually not the one in front of you), and then the one doing the posing (usually the one in front of you).

When they get that close, they've taken away your safety zone (the car), placed themselves within range to cause injury to your dependent (any person you are with is a dependent, as far as a martial artist should look at things), have entered into your personal space (hell, in this situation, 6 feet away is in my personal space), and outnumber you, there really is no more room for dissuade.

It's time to get ugly, fast, and create an opening for my girlfriend to run back into the bar.

As to exactly how i would attack... well that really does depend on what are my options. If there's dirt on the floor, or keys in my hands, i have weapons. In any situation you must do a quick survey of your options, and then ensure you take every available option into consideration, determining how best, and when, to use whatever is around you (including other people... not as shields, but as participants or people who can 'call the police' or jump in the bar for help, or whatever).

[glockmeister]

Well for scenario 1:

To be brutally honest, if it seemed like he was geared up for a fight, I'd probably strike him while he's in the middle of his quinessential pre-fight tough guy speech. Two on one and my girl may be in trouble? I'm not fighting fair, I'm fighting to escape with as little harm done to me or my girl.

I agree with that statement 100%. As soon as he would get between me and the car he would be either getting a full force groin kick or knee to the groin, that would be one down.....

[glockmeister]

For Guys

For Girls

(Stereotypical - I do appologize) Your walking down the street, a couple of guys notice you as you walk by and begin to whistle and shout obscenities at you. Ignoring them, you easily realize they are following as the whistling and the gestures and choice words are thrown at you. Before you realize what happens, you are grabbed and quickly thrown into an alley way.

Not sure I totally understand this statement: You EASILY realize they are following you, but they grab and push you into an alley BEFORE YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS?

If you realize they are following you, why would you allow them to get within arms reach? If you notice them, and they begin to follow, why wouldn't you just RUN? In this case, it's definately not a sudden, surprise attack. By their antics, they draw attention to themselves and make you aware of both thier presence and their distance from you. There is no reason they should then be able to grab you before you realize there is a danger since you already realized you were being followed.

[ShotokanKid]

White Warlock-

I always love your replies. I like your idea of offering to get the guy a drink, and also to give your girlfriend your cell phone and keys. Those are such good ideas.

[White Warlock]

Thanks.

[clearsky]

scenario 1: Well the guy appears to have been drinking, but he has a buddy with him.

I would ask him kindly to move away from the car so I may leave.

If he refuses, I will attempt to push him away from the car, if he then tries to get physical, I will then proceed to drop him to the ground using a standard arm twistlock letting him feel the pressure of his arm about to break, if his buddy comes near I tell his buddy that his friend here is about to experience a broken arm if he come any closer.

Give the person every chance to back out. If there is no other choice but to get in a physical altercation, then show him he is nothing more an a wet piece of paper that can be torn to shreds by dropping him to the ground with a arm twist applying the proper amount of pressure to his elbow.

True story: When i was in high school a friend and I were jumped by a group of gang members it was 4 against me and him.

Apperantly they didnt like my friend to much and offered for myself to leave. (At the time I was a red belt and new to the high school;) I was not about to leave my friend there by himself. So out of the group of 4 I picked the one who seemed to be the leader. I then told them to leave my friend be and to let us go about our way, I knew they would laugh but I had to clearly state my position that i was not leaving.

out of the blue I get sucker punched from behind, this just set me off, the first person i got my hands on I broke his arm, the second person I made an example out of, after the fight and about a weak later I find out the guy I made an example out of could never walk normal again as I shattered his knee and the thing that gets me to this day is, I could have talked my way out of it, even if it meant a hit to my pride. So now I will walk away from fights, even if the person thinks I am weaker than him. Fight only to defend yourself and to protect those who are weaker than your self.

Moral of the story is, just because you can hurt someone doesnt mean you should....