GRK International

[username8517]

Please bear in mind that I have never had any first hand experience with GKR as it is fairly unheard of here in the USA. All knowledge I have on GKR has been done through forums, websites, and personal conversations with other martial arts practioners. So hopefully this is going to be fairly unbiased (hopefully).

1 - Why the Mcdojo tag? As I have said I am new to Karate, if it hadn't been for the guy from GKR knocking on my door I don't think I would have had the nerve to walk into a dojo. Sure Mr Sullivan is in it to make money, but who is in business for any other reason these days? He is just lucky that he has been able to make money doing something that he enjoys.

The McDojo tag is often implied to schools that care more about getting your money and giving you a belt over teaching the proper way of martial arts. You are correct, Mr. Sullivan is in it to make money and he does have a business to run, much like other full time instructors, however, it is often his methods of running a business that tends to upset people. For example, as you mention in another section, you had someone approach your door selling you martial arts--did you research it any further than just speaking with the guy who's at your doorstep?

Martial arts should be a life-long experience, not something you step into because someone's selling you something at your front door. You probably wouldn't buy a car just because the dealer knocked on your door would you?

I'm not saying your choice for getting into MA is wrong or that you're in it for the wrong reasons, but merely trying to show one of the reasons I have heard it labeled a McDojo. But in the end, it all comes down to what you want to get out of it and if you're getting your needs fulfilled.

2 - Yes it is nocontact, but from what I have gathered karate isnt just about being able to knock the living daylights out of your opponant. I believe there is a lot more to it, is there not? Such as teching discipline, self respect, respect for others, confidence etc. How does teaching no-contact effect these benefits?

Like I said before, it's all about what you want out of it. To me, a martial art, regardless of the art, should give you something in return (confidence, respect, discipline, etc) aside from the ability to fight. However, it should also prepare you should you ever have to fight.

When I first started karate, the dojo I started in was a sports based dojo. Our sparring consisted of no head contact, controlled body shots, and nothing below the waist. When I left that dojo to pursue other arts, I found myself still performing those same restrictions in contact sparring and drills. It took me a long while to break those bad habit and learn how to hit with control.

Think of it this way, if tomorrow you're walking down the street and someone tries to mug you, would you rather "knock the living daylights out" and be over with it or rely on your no-contact training, hoping that you get in that lucky shot when all that adrenaline is pumping through your system?

3 - Also the no-contact nature is another reason I was enticed to come along to a session. I do a customer facing job and was concerned that doing martial arts would leave me bruised, not good in front of customers!

Once again, this is something that you wanted to get out of martial arts and it fits your requirements so I cannot dispute this at all. However, I would like to mention that there are plenty of martial arts facilities that do have contact in them that will not leave you all bloodied and bruised.

In the end, as I have mentioned before, it all comes down to what you want out of a martial art. What I would recommend is writing down a list of what you want to get out of martial arts and (most importantly) why. Then see how GKR stacks up for you. For those things that GKR doesn't provide, perhaps you should speak with your instructor as to his/her thoughts and opinions about it. If it's a good fit for you, then stay with it. If not, you might want to start looking elsewhere

[chillindan]

Hi thanks for the prompt reply. I cant fault your reasoning in your post except to say that if the guy had not knocked on my door would I have ever been introduced to martial arts? I am sure there are many more GKR members who are very glad they had the 'knock on the door'.

As for real fighting I can seee what you are saying, but surely a counter to this is we are taught to control our actions. By the very fact that we can control them surely this means I will be able to 'step it up' if the time ever comes that I need to use them. Failing that i am an excellent runner!

Seriously though I take your points and I cant really respond with any authority as I only had my first sparring session last week.

[username8517]

I cant fault your reasoning in your post except to say that if the guy had not knocked on my door would I have ever been introduced to martial arts? I am sure there are many more GKR members who are very glad they had the 'knock on the door'.

I cannot argue this at all and I apologize if I came across saying it was the wrong thing to do. I was merely trying to drive the point across that everyone who takes up martial arts should throughly invest time into researching both what they want out of it and what locals training facilities have to offer. Whether it is McDojo-ish or not, I cannot say, as I have not had any first hand experience with GKR.

This is why I used my analogy of a car dealer knocking on your door. Purchasing a car is something you know you're only going to utilize on average for the next 10 years, while MA is something you will carry with you for the rest of your life. Surely you wouldn't buy a car without research. Martial arts should be the same way.

That is what I was the point I was trying to get at.

As for real fighting I can seee what you are saying, but surely a counter to this is we are taught to control our actions. By the very fact that we can control them surely this means I will be able to 'step it up' if the time ever comes that I need to use them.

Yes--to an extent. You should strive for the control to hit your opponent without causing damage. Controling to the point of pulling away before contact will hardwire your brain into subconsciously pulling back on every attack. I know through first hand experience how difficult this can be to break.

On top of that, when you spar, do you utilize any safety gear? I'm assuming you utilize some sort of hand protection, but what about head gear or other forms of padding?

Failing that i am an excellent runner!

Best advice any martial artist can have. For me (and probably a good number of people who train) martial arts is not about training to run away from fights, it's for when you can't run away.

Seriously though I take your points and I cant really respond with any authority as I only had my first sparring session last week.

This is an open forum and we're all human. We all have different beliefs, philosophies, experiences, and so on. So don't be afraid to give an opinion and state why you feel that way.

Not only have I learned from those I've study under, but I've also been taught by those I teach. Just because you're new to martial arts doesn't mean you do not have anything useful to offer.

[bushido_man96]

2 - Yes it is nocontact, but from what I have gathered karate isnt just about being able to knock the living daylights out of your opponant. I believe there is a lot more to it, is there not? Such as teching discipline, self respect, respect for others, confidence etc. How does teaching no-contact effect these benefits?

There are several disadvantages to no-contact sparring. A major one is the fact that you learn to block or evade techniques that aren't going to hit you anyways. When you learn to block head-high round kicks that aren't supposed to touch you anyway, and then someone comes along with the intent to make contact, you find out how much difference there is between the two.

[ps1]

By the very fact that we can control them surely this means I will be able to 'step it up' if the time ever comes that I need to use them. Failing that i am an excellent runner!

You bring up the point that so many other martial artists try to bring up. But the fact is you will fight as you train. Ask anyone who is in real life struggles day in and day out. Police and military are the best examples. You can't train to shoot short of your target every time and just assume you'll be able to aim accurately when the time comes. You train to shoot accurately and, even then most people shoot awful under the stress of combat. The same goes for punches and kicks.

I'm not saying you need to be taking your partner's head off. But you should train with some moderate contact at least once a week. This way you actually get to see how your strikes affect the person. You'll be surprised! If you worry about conspicuous bruises, wear large 16 oz boxing gloves and boxing head gear. This will greatly prevent such things.

[Mike Flanagan]

As for real fighting I can seee what you are saying, but surely a counter to this is we are taught to control our actions. By the very fact that we can control them surely this means I will be able to 'step it up' if the time ever comes that I need to use them. Failing that i am an excellent runner!

Sadly no, you will be unlikely to 'step it up'. Modern understanding of neurology, sport science and my own hard-earned experience all point in the same direction: if you condition your body to react a certain way then that is the way it will attempt to react under stress. To condition it one way then to expect to be able to readily and appropriately modify that conditioning under times of stress is to invite disaster.

Chillindan, I can't give you an unbiased opinion of GKR - I am a vociferous critic of the system. But my opinion is formed by many years of Karate training in different styles, real-life experience of violence, a great deal of conversation with current and ex-GKR students, and even a visit to a GKR club to check out what its all about.

What's my main beef? The system is dumbed down in the extreme. Dumbed down so that, theoretically, even someone with only a few months training can teach it. But don't take my word for it. What colour belt does your instructor wear - black or black and white stripe? Has anyone made you aware that the black and white stripe doesn't signify that the instructor has achieved black belt rank? It is not at all unusual to see GKR instructors as low as green belt, and even orange belt. The organisation hides this behind a smoke screen - its 'bad etiquette' to ask an instructor their real grade, or you're told that you can learn from anyone. Would you send your children to a school where all the teachers have no more than a few months training? I suspect not.

Not only does GKR instruction do little to improve your self-defence skills (one could argue that it actually worsens them), it is not unusual for people to develop knee and back problems as a result of the inexpert and frankly incompetent tuition provided.

Like I said, I'm a vociferous critic. But I'll be happy to discuss any aspect of GKR or martial arts generally with you in a sensible and mature manner.

Mike

[chillindan]

Hi Mike thanks for your comments.

I have read a number of posts on a number of sites with similar statements; however, I have also read a number of things that simply are not true of my dojo. My instructors are all B/W belt instructors, but they are open about their grade. All three are Brown Belts (2 3rd kyu and 1 2nd kyu).

I suspect that the quality of the dojos does vary, but I can say that whenever I have asked a question about why we do something a particular way or what is the reason behind move x in kata x, they have always been able to give me an answer, or demonstrate the bunkai.

I’m not going to blindly sing the praises of the organisation as a whole, but what I can say is that so far I have been impressed with:

1 - What I have been taught so far.

2 - The attitude of my instructors (even though they are not Dan grades).

3 - The atmosphere in my club.

Is it too far fetched to think that it is possible for there to be some good instruction/instructors in a club with 40,000 members? Also I am grateful that they came 'knocking' as otherwise I doubt whether I would ever have had the nerve to approach a dojo myself.

I am also amazed at the amount of criticism in general that I have read about GKR, much of it ill considered and badly argued. I have not read any posts yet by GKR members attacking any other forms of martial arts (although I am not saying they don’t exist, I just haven’t found them yet). From the little reading I have done about karate and its origins I understand that humility and respect for others are quite high in the principles? This doesn’t seem to stand very nicely with attacking other people’s arts (Mike this isn’t targeted at you specifically, it is just a general comment).

Respectfully,

D

[bushido_man96]

By the very fact that we can control them surely this means I will be able to 'step it up' if the time ever comes that I need to use them. Failing that i am an excellent runner!

You bring up the point that so many other martial artists try to bring up. But the fact is you will fight as you train. Ask anyone who is in real life struggles day in and day out. Police and military are the best examples. You can't train to shoot short of your target every time and just assume you'll be able to aim accurately when the time comes. You train to shoot accurately and, even then most people shoot awful under the stress of combat. The same goes for punches and kicks.

I'm not saying you need to be taking your partner's head off. But you should train with some moderate contact at least once a week. This way you actually get to see how your strikes affect the person. You'll be surprised! If you worry about conspicuous bruises, wear large 16 oz boxing gloves and boxing head gear. This will greatly prevent such things.

ps1 has made an excellent point here. Reference Jigoro Kano, and the work he did with judo over jujitsu. It is the same principle, essentially.

[chillindan]

I will look up your reference bushido_man96 and get back to you. As it is I may be forced to look for another style anyway as I am moving to Stafford early next and I dont think there is a GKR in the area.

[DeeBoy]

If you havent done your research yet you might want to start now before you get too involved in some thing you may regret later down the track. Look into Kancho Robert Sullivan's history and you will find that he has been around for many years and traind in many forms of traditional karate, however, be aware that it is not traditional nor accepted by instructors, masters and ma boards to allow or accept a 2nd dan instructor/founder of their style (GKR) to grade their students to 3rd and even 4th dan whilst still on 2nd themselves.

This is what happened in the early days, once these ppl were graded higher they then presented Sullivan with his 5th dan (WTF).

If you have found a ma you like, enjoy and can see yourself doing for the next 10 years, then good luck to you. but while your still at the early stages, it might be worth while for you to check out some other styles and compare what you know to these other styles.

also please refer to the thred regarding Black belt gradings and look at my latest reply.

Good luck and train hard.