Zen/Shinto/Aikido application...

[sdargie]

I remembered an experience of mine a few months ago while reading "Zen Anyone" and figured I would give it its own thread since it doesn't quite relate to meditation but the application of it's mindset.

While packing up my room at the end of semester at school some friends and roommates were hanging out in my room watching Nanny 911 because it was still new and we were curious. Somewhere along the line someone made what I thought was a joke about beating their child if they ever acted like the kids on TV. Not just, spanking but a backhand to face. In my disbelief I played along not realizing he was serious but as I came to realize that we ended up in an arguement about parenting, the line between abuse and discipline, and other such things.

I am a music education major and I have been teaching kids in varying situations for about a decade. I have lots of experience with managing kids and have seen the fallout from horrible living situations in various ways and I have read about many different approaches to education and discipline in classes. If I ever see someone hit a child I will probably break that hand on the spot. Essentially, it really shook me that someone I had known for a long time had a part of their personality that was so against my core beliefs.

I should mention before this turns into a debate about spanking that I talked to some adults that I really respect who spank their children and it's easier for me to swallow if the child is involved in deciding what a "spankable offense" is. The examples I heard were lying, stealing and instigatinig a fight.

Anyway, my question for those more enlightened than I is have you ever run into a situation that rocked the foundation of who you were and it was really hard to accept that part of the other person(s) even though they were a close friend? Where is the line between accepting a person as they are completely and cutting them out of our life? I have come across situations like this before and they are never fun. I really want to learn to live by O Senseis concept of love but this was a major snag in my understanding and application of that love.

Any guidance or relevant stories would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[fallen_milkman]

First off, I do not consider myself enlightened. I just figured I would give you my take on the matter, just to help you see other sides of things. Personally, when I have a way of life contrary to my friends, I live by example. Not lead, live. I don't berate or argue, I simply explain my way when asked. Most people will come around. Have I seen drastic changes in these people? Not really. Have I seen positive changes, even if they are not as big as I would like? Usually. Patience and acceptance is the key.

Honestly, I know how you feel, but stopping friendship with people over such things will not solve them. One friend of mine almost failed out of college from drug use last year. Now admittedly, I am guilty of a few vices myself, but she went far overboard. While some of her friends pushed her away for her behavior, I stood by her and helped her when things got rough. She is now almost completely clean (caffeine and cigarettes are a vast improvement over cocaine and ecstacy, as WELL as caffein and cigarettes), and much happier.

So basically, remember them for their good qualities, and remember we are not perfect either. I'd be a lot happier if I stopped drinking, even if I am only a social drinker. If we were all perfect, the world would be a boring place. Self perfection is half the reason I love my martial arts class.

Wow. That got long. I'll shut my face now.

[Enviroman]

I'm not a strong believer in hitting of any kind (especially with children). As far as should you stop being friends with this person...well, that's a decision only you can make.

I'd seriously take a long look at why you consider this person such a good friend. Are all of those positives outweighed by a difference in parental ideology? Remember, there's a good chance that he was brought up thinking that it was ok to hit a child that was "bad." Maybe sit down with him and talk it all over in a calm manner (not something most guys will want to do but it is probably worth getting him to do it).

On an unrelated note, do you go to Harvard? It's the only school I know of right in Allston (or, at least a good portion of the campus is in Allston). BU isn't too far from Allston, either.

[sdargie]

We'll I'm still friends with them. I wasn't angry at them for thinking the way they do just sad and dissapointed in them. I suppose that's a step up from being angry at them. It mostly saddened me because I see hitting children as an admission of weakness. It's like saying, "I'm not strong enough to treat you like person who is learning every day and needs guidance but I am strong enough to treat you like a pet who needs fixing."

They do have a lot of good qualities and they have been through a lot in their life so when things come up I try to support them as much as I can.

Most of my issue is that I'm trying to get to the point where not matter how extreme I think peoples opinions are they won't affect me. In fact I should say to the point were I consider peoples opinions extreme at all, just opinions.

I can relate to that situation as well fallen_milkman. One of my ex-roommates (I've had many) was a straight-edge Christian before the summer and came back the biggest drug dealer on campus.

I go to Berklee College of Music, Enviroman.

[Tef]

I personally cannot really judge a person only one of their beliefs. regarding, phyisical "disciplining" with children. I support spanking as a consequence for something pretty major like stealing and fighting/ hurting someone physically or emotionally.

[shukokai2000]

intresting post

[Ziyad]

I personally cannot really judge a person only one of their beliefs. regarding, phyisical "disciplining" with children. I support spanking as a consequence for something pretty major like stealing and fighting/ hurting someone physically or emotionally.

But who will spank you for hurting your child physically and emotionally when they hurt someone physically or emotionally?