Have I failed as a martial artist?

[tkdBill]

The two things that are on top of a martial artists list:

1. respect

2. self control

I Agree, these are essential in the dojo. The instructor should also maintain control of the floor at all times. If he has a student that he may not be able to trust, he should watch him closely when sparring other students...if he lets him train at all.

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[parkerlineage]

Wow...lots of responses...

Many people inferred that it may have been my instructor's fault. Of course, I'm highly biased in my instructor's favor...but anyway, he does control the floor in the beginning classes, but as you can see from the list of people that were there, this is the most advanced class. He essentially figures that we can solve things on our own, by now, which I feel is correct. We train for street effectiveness, and on the street, you won't have the instructor to tell the guy to back off.

He will, however, discuss it with this guy. I know that for a fact - if someone complains, the person is talked to, and if it continues for much longer, something will be done about it.

btw, the shodan that my instructor dropped was the same guy, sorry if that sentence sounded confusing.

BTW, are you higher ranked than he is?

No, we're both shodan. Technically, he had his shodan before me, but I had my junior black long before he had his shodan.

depends ---- were you trying to teach him his mistake ..... or were you just attackign?

Secondly - did you retain control of your techniques....

I was trying to teach him - albiet with a glimmer of attacking - and I certainly maintained control of my techniques.

Sometimes stories become twisted in the telling, so your instructor may have said it was ok when you view of events was twisted?

To the best of my knowledge, I told the story exactly as I told it here.

Thanks for your replies!

Peace;

Parkerlineage

[pineapple]

Many people inferred that it may have been my instructor's fault. Of course, I'm highly biased in my instructor's favor...but anyway, he does control the floor in the beginning classes, but as you can see from the list of people that were there, this is the most advanced class. He essentially figures that we can solve things on our own, by now, which I feel is correct. We train for street effectiveness, and on the street, you won't have the instructor to tell the guy to back off.

Hard contact sparring is fine if this is your school's style but hitting after the sparring has ended is unacceptable in my opinion.

[tkdBill]

Your original post made it clear that the other guy was CLEARLY out of control with regards to both respect and your normal dojo courtesies. I'm sorry, but this is clearly your instructors fault.

If it is normal practice at your dojo to wear scooby-do t-shirts and pound people after they are finished sparring, then what was the point of your original post?

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[Aodhan]

Failed as a martial artist? Not really. There were a couple failures, though.

1) If the guy has a history of punching after the "break", then I wouldn't spar him. I'd also tell him why. I'm not into sparring to get cheap shotted. If I am fighting, which is different than sparring, then I expect anything and everything.

2) Your instructor (Regardless of the "police yourself" policy) has both a moral and a legal obligation to control the sparring. If this guy hits someone in the face, and fractures an eye orbit or soft palate, etc. your instructor will get hung in any lawsuit.

3) You allowed your temper to get the better of you. While understandable (I've done it myself), it's like beating a puppy. They don't really understand why they are being beaten.

Basically, from what I see (And this might sound a little harsh), is you lost your cool, pounded a little on someone, and are now feeling guilty/wrong about it. You come here looking for validation and reassurance, but that's not really something we can give you. You have to work it out with yourself and the other guy. Eventually, if nobody spars with him because he always cheap/late shots, then he might get the hint, or maybe he's never had anyone tell him anything about it. I don't know, I haven't been there.

You have to make it right for you. If you feel that you did something wrong, you will feel that every time you see the guy, no matter what we tell you. If you think you did right, then nothing we say would persuade you otherwise. You have to figure it out, and if you think you did something wrong, you need to make it right yourself.

Aodhan

[UseoForce]

3) You allowed your temper to get the better of you. While understandable (I've done it myself), it's like beating a puppy. They don't really understand why they are being beaten.

Good point.

[y2_sub]

I don't think you failed ! I think you have done the right thing by beating the other shodan , however , I agree that your instructor should interfere and stopped the fight before the things got out of control

I do the same thing if some advanced guy tries to outfight me , just give him a good combo and force him to back off ( or knock him down )

[parkerlineage]

3) You allowed your temper to get the better of you. While understandable (I've done it myself), it's like beating a puppy. They don't really understand why they are being beaten.

Quite true...beating puppies is sad, though.

2) Your instructor (Regardless of the "police yourself" policy) has both a moral and a legal obligation to control the sparring. If this guy hits someone in the face, and fractures an eye orbit or soft palate, etc. your instructor will get hung in any lawsuit.

Again, probably true.

You come here looking for validation and reassurance

Hardly. I come here looking for the opinions of marital artists whom I respect. Never validation, and never reassurance. I'm willing to hear that I was wrong.

If it is normal practice at your dojo to wear scooby-do t-shirts and pound people after they are finished sparring, then what was the point of your original post?

Haha...okay, you got me there. So, I guess I have to put some blame on my instructor...I think I'll just avoid fighting this guy again.

[elbows_and_knees]

Tonight was sparring class - it was small, only a first kyu, a junior black, me, a second dan, and my instructor. We went through our drills, kata, technique, etc., then got ready to spar.

At this time, another first dan who has been in and out of training for the last few months showed up in his street clothes, with some random friend. He put on his gi pants, but no belt, with a Scooby-Do t-shirt (that wasn't even tucked in, as is the rule for our official workout t-shirts). This guy (19 years old) has always been very cocky, arrogant, and is known for cheap shots and late hits.

In our dojo, we practice a kind of continuous within reason sparring - we go several solid hits, and then back off when one person has had enough, touch gloves, and go again. This is rather hard to get used to when you first start, but at our level (he's been training almost as long as me), you know when to stop. He never does, even when people call him on it.

So, I got to him, and the first thing he does, after I hit him with a good combo and start to back off, was punch me full bore in the face. This was well after he knew I was done fighting. I shook it off, and the second round, he did it again.

I figured something had to be done, so the next time, I did my combo, then threw a full-bore, knock-out punch at his face, but pulled it before I hit, so it stopped in front of him. He gave this cocky little head toss he always does, kind of laughed, and then punched me in the face again as I was backing off.

I was seriously angry now. He knew that we were done...it had been a good three seconds since I hit him last. Usually, I'm very good at removing emotion from my fighting, but, for what was probably the first time, I was really ticked. The next round, I drilled his face/head with a six punch combo, then a spinning heel-hook to the side of the head. He looked a little dazed, but after we touched gloves, he came in hard. I knew this was only going to escalate, but I didn't care. Uppercut to the jaw, front kick to the chest, sweep up through the face, and then axe-kick to the collarbone. I was livid.

This went on for the next two minutes, until the round was over, and needless to say, I beat the living weasel out of him. I don't claim to be the greatest fighter in the world (I suck at tournament fighting) but I can beat anybody other than my instructor at my dojo.

When I was finished fighting the next person (the first kyu, who is testing for first dan in a few months and is a very good fighter), I asked him to trade rotation with me, because I knew I was only going to end up seriously hurting the other guy if I kept fighting him. Afterward, I asked my instructor if what I did was wrong, and he told me no. My instructor himself dropped the same first dan with a hammerfist to the back of the neck after the guy repeatedly late-shotted him.

But questions still remain in my mind...the main one being...

Was I wrong to do what I did?

I don't think what you did was wrong - I don't necessarily think what he did was wrong either though. At my school, we spar the way you would in the ring, as most of us compete. So, if you do decide to back off, you are very likely to get swung at - that's fine, as you should know how to deal with it anyway. After he caught you the first time, you should've been prepared for it the next time, give that you know what type of person he is.

Also, another thing we do at my school is "cool people off" we've got guys that say that want to go light contact, but what that really is is that they want YOU to go light contact. They try to knock you out. When that happens, turn up the heat on them. Afterward, remind them that it was supposed to be light contact. Everytime they forget that, you "remind" them.

[glockmeister]

Sound like your opponant failed as a MAist. He should have enough respect for his fellow students not to throw cheap shots and hit when the sparring is over.