Ignorance of Western Martial Arts

[ovine king]

I think it's a cultural thing. For a long time, martial arts was a big part of the cultures in china and japana dn to a certain extent, they still are. in the west however, the culture tended towards the sword arts and boxing/puglism/wrestling was relegated towards the lower classes. The fact that one society saw fighting as a high art and the other saw it as a low class thing is a factor in why western martial arts, especially when it comes to stand up fighting arts, isn't very well known. I mean, how many comprehensive western stand up fighting arts can you name?

On the other hand, I would also say that western sword play is much more sophiscated and more highly developed than chinese sword play. I have a friend who fences a lot and I am always fascinated by the depth of skill involved. In a way the things she and they talk about mirrors things said in the typical chinese stand up fighting art. Both talk about touch and absense of touch and gates of entry etc etc. Fascinating stuff.

[UseoForce]

I read on another forum recently about western weapon styles vs. eastern. Western came out victorious every time. I believe that is because of the tough western training methodology. Thoughts?

Also, have any of you ever sparred or rolled with someone expierienced in savate, catch wrestling, or any of the German "ringen" I believe it is called? Impressions?

[elbows_and_knees]

Hey,

y2_sub, as far as I know it is quite similar to kickboxing. Some differences I know of are that they use some takedowns and also have a ranking system which has to do with glove color.

savate is france's variation of boxing combined with their variation of kicking. france had a lot of interaction with asia in earlier centuries, and their kicking was inspired by what they saw / learned there. There are some that say it is primarily an offshoot of thai kicking.

EDIT:

I just pulled this off of the web:

"The sport of Muay Thai made its way to Europe sometime around the 17th century where it was embraced with open arms. The sport was modified, primarily to outlaw the use of knees and elbows, and given the name Savate. "

[elbows_and_knees]

I read on another forum recently about western weapon styles vs. eastern. Western came out victorious every time. I believe that is because of the tough western training methodology. Thoughts?

Also, have any of you ever sparred or rolled with someone expierienced in savate, catch wrestling, or any of the German "ringen" I believe it is called? Impressions?

I think it would depend on the weapons involved. For example, if you are talking about katana vs sabre, for instance, the sabre is faster that the katana, but the katana is much stronger. if the weilders are equal in skill, it could go either way. a katana weilder believes in sidestepping though, not in blocking or parrying, so the sabre weilder may have an advantage there.

there is a different set if circumstances for say, claymore vs jian. What you are talking about is very broad. Do you have any specifics?

Catch is awesome stuff. I've rolled with some catch guys before. Never played with a savate stylist though.

[UseoForce]

It gets pretty complicated, I'd have to write a LONG post to really go into detail.

When you rolled with the catch guys, did they "catch" (pardon the pun) you in some seriously painful submissions that would get them kicked out of a sport BJJ dojo? They don't hold back. Any means of causing pain is fair game for them. I love it!

[elbows_and_knees]

he caught me with some stuff, but nothing that was illegal in bjj. I know they have plenty of it though.

[sdargie]

For example, if you are talking about katana vs sabre, for instance, the sabre is faster that the katana, but the katana is much stronger. if the weilders are equal in skill, it could go either way. a katana weilder believes in sidestepping though, not in blocking or parrying, so the sabre weilder may have an advantage there.

Not true. Having trained in both I can tell you that both swords have a form of "reposte" or knockaway that allows them to parry their opponents sword and step straight in. If anything, the katana has more ways of stepping in than the sabre does because the katana weilder also has parrys on the vertical axis while the sabres are restricted to the horizontal axis in order for their parrys to work and still set up a lunge.

Keep in mind that a katana might slice through a sabre (or at least render it useless) a clever fencer wouldn't even allow the swords to touch and just junge at openings.

[elbows_and_knees]

the katana wielder - traditionally, at least - feels that dulling the blade dulls their soul as well. For this reason, sidestepping is predominant. That's not to say they won't parry if they have to - that's just common sense - but the preference is to movement.

[UseoForce]

I just added a poll, I'd appreciate some responses .

[sdargie]

The sidestepping is still true but the knockaways I am referring to use the side and back of the blade so that the blade isn't damaged like you said. There is a ninja defense that uses the blade of the sword but that may fall under a different ideology.