tkdBill Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Enviroman, I agree that a contract is neither a sign of a good school nor a bad school. I know some excellent schools that use contracts, and I know of excellent schools that do not. As a professional MA instructor, I prefer to only accept students that are committed to working toward their black belt. I require an annual agreement. It definitely lets me focus teaching and not on whether I will be able to pay the rent next month.I agree if that is what the funds are being used for. I've seen schools charge in excess of $300 for black belt fees! Unless they are flying in masters and grandmasters from around the country (which they most likely are not) the fee should be just enough to cover whatever expenses arise. There is nothing wrong with a good instructor earning money for working hard and providing an excellent service. Btw, I do bring in masters and other senior instructors from around the country.Those "Tiny Tigers" and "Junior Black Belts" are nothing but marketing ploys to draw in ignorant parents to drop off their kids for a few hours a week.What a shame that this is your experience. I personally know some great programs that really positively impact children. I know some outstanding martial artists that started in these types of programs 10 or 15 years ago. definitely NOT just a marketing ploy!!-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyeyedhobo Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 My dad and I were taking a 4 hour trip down to bass pro shops to get some replacement backpacking gear. We had lunch at Mc Donalds believe it or not. What is even more amazing is that there was a karate school about 50 yards from it in a strip mall. We thought we would check it out just to see what was going on. Definately a McDojo! There were 2 instructers and about 40 little kids. 10 had black belts. The instructers set up an assemably line kind of thing. The kid would kung fu kick the bag, walk over punch the dummy, walk over to an instructer (the other was on break) kick a little thing he was holding out. Rinse and repeat. What was even more sad was there were a bunch of soccer moms sitting on the bench holding crying babies waiting to pick up thier kid. Made me really mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdBill Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 What made you mad? That the kids were learning martial arts instead of playing "Grand Theft Auto" or that their mom's were waiting for them? Or that repetition on bags is part of their training?It may well be a McDojo, but how can you tell by observing for an hour or so? Did you see their adult class? Again, it would take more than a casual observation of their adult class to make such a determination. I have some classes where we do bag work for the whole class. It might look boring to the casual observer, but there is a reason for it. If you watch 3 or 4 of my classes you would see that we do much more than bag work! Repetition drills are extremely important to perfect technique, even in non-McDojos.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enviroman Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 What made you mad? That the kids were learning martial arts instead of playing "Grand Theft Auto" or that their mom's were waiting for them? Or that repetition on bags is part of their training?It may well be a McDojo, but how can you tell by observing for an hour or so? Did you see their adult class? Again, it would take more than a casual observation of their adult class to make such a determination. I have some classes where we do bag work for the whole class. It might look boring to the casual observer, but there is a reason for it. If you watch 3 or 4 of my classes you would see that we do much more than bag work! Repetition drills are extremely important to perfect technique, even in non-McDojos.--It could be the fact that 10 of the kids had black belts. Or that a group of moms holding babies makes the school look more like a daycare and less like a place to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShotokanKid Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Those "Tiny Tigers" and "Junior Black Belts" are nothing but marketing ploys to draw in ignorant parents to drop off their kids for a few hours a week.What a shame that this is your experience. I personally know some great programs that really positively impact children. I know some outstanding martial artists that started in these types of programs 10 or 15 years ago. definitely NOT just a marketing ploy!!--I agree with you tkdBill.My own dojo has little cubs and little tigers, a program for 3-4 years olds and 5-6 year olds, respectively. These students cannot get karate ranks. Only when they are 7 can they advance. We also have Junior Black belts, or black belts under 16. My dojo has only had 2 Jr. BB, and both have had at least 3 years of perfect attendance (coming to every class.) "What we do in life, echoes in eternity.""We must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyeyedhobo Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I think that i forgot to menchon that the kids were prety much doing whatever they wanted to do and not using any proper technique. I dont really know much about the art but I know how a sidekick is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShotokanKid Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I'm not saying that the dojo wasn't a McDojo, I'm just saying that some youth programs are real and not a marketing ploy. "What we do in life, echoes in eternity.""We must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdBill Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 It could be the fact that 10 of the kids had black belts. Or that a group of moms holding babies makes the school look more like a daycare and less like a place to learn.The school may well have been a McDojo, but that cannot be determined in a casual visit. The kids may be exceptional students that earned their black belts over the past 4 years of training. Mom's do, unfortunately, have crying babies. They are usually the siblings of the students. In my school they have to wait in the lobby so the students cannot hear them. Luckily, they are usually gone in time for the adult classes!-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdBill Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I think that i forgot to menchon that the kids were prety much doing whatever they wanted to do and not using any proper technique. I dont really know much about the art but I know how a sidekick is done.Now that is a sign of a McDojo!!Kids are capable if great technique, and should be held to high standards. They should also be taught discipline and respect.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShotokanKid Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 ditto "What we do in life, echoes in eternity.""We must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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