Palm Heel Strike Overrated?

[Shorin Ryuu]

Yeah, my description and view of this kind of palm heel strike is actually a mixture of Arakaki's views and my own personal views, so I actually agree with you. Perhaps I should have been more specific (and perhaps you may still disagree with me after I explain better). When I said there is no tension, I was referring more to the hand and arm. There is some "pushing" action (for lack of a better term) coming more from the center (or hara and whatnot) to give more penetration rather than a "surface impact" as you rightly describe using the other method. Essentially some of what you used to see me do when I would palm heel strike that makiwara back in our college days over and over again coupled with some more understanding I've supposedly gained in the time since then.

[Hansen]

I currently have a second job as a bouncer in a popular downtown club. previously, I've worked security for other companies. I've never seen and serious hand injuries during a fight. That said, I know that they occur, but it's like people automatically assume that if you punch a hard object your hand will break, and that is not the case. I do agree with the old maxim I posted earlier - hard to soft and soft to hard - but hard to hard guys are not guaranteed a hand break by any means.

I did not mean to suggest that a broken hand was a guaranteed result of a fist fight. I figured everyone on this board is intelligent enough to know that was not what I was stating or implying. But I can understand why some individuals may have gotten that impression from my prior post. So I will clarify. All I meant was that the more closed fist punches you throw during the course of a fist fight, the greater the potential for a hand injury. And I am talking from my own experience as well. But a hand injury doesn't have to be serious to alter the course of a fight. That is, it doesn't have to result in broken bones. Wrenched fingers, injured wrists and such are all forms of hand injuries sufficient enough at times to alter the course of a fight.

And I do realize that some times adrenaline can kick in and a person may not know that his hand is even injured or broken until after the fight is over and his opponent is a bloody mess on the ground. But my reply was in response to a poster that seemed to suggest that NHB was the be all and end all of street fighting and that palm strikes were useless techniques. This is simply not true.

I would also like to state that I liked Elbows and Knees post about striking with hard weapons against soft targets and soft against hard targets. It's a simple and logical principle. However, during a rapid exchange of blows, it does not seem easy to switch from open to closed handed strikes (and back to open hand) in response to specific targets that present themselves in "milliseconds". I won't say that it cannot be done or done well. Like anything I'm sure you have to practice, but to me, it seems much easier to stick with one and blast the opponent. Just my opinion.

[elbows_and_knees]

I did not mean to suggest that a broken hand was a guaranteed result of a fist fight. I figured everyone on this board is intelligent enough to know that was not what I was stating or implying. But I can understand why some individuals may have gotten that impression from my prior post. So I will clarify.

I wasn't suggesting that you were. it was just a general rant triggered by your post.

I would also like to state that I liked Elbows and Knees post about striking with hard weapons against soft targets and soft against hard targets. It's a simple and logical principle. However, during a rapid exchange of blows, it does not seem easy to switch from open to closed handed strikes (and back to open hand) in response to specific targets that present themselves in "milliseconds". I won't say that it cannot be done or done well. Like anything I'm sure you have to practice, but to me, it seems much easier to stick with one and blast the opponent. Just my opinion.

I agree with that as well. I do however believe that there is truth to the maxim. if I switch to anything, it's to my namesake - elbows and knees - for various reasons.

[Kajukenbopr]

it is a very effective strike- dont u wonder why it has been used for so long,this strike?

I've always hated it when people try to make that argument... the butterfly kick has been around too - how effective is it? The tornado kick is still around. People still teach various double punches... Longevity is not a means of proving effectiveness. It only says that people wanted to keep these techniques around.

well, both the palm heel strike and the butterfly kick are effective- people, however, shouldnt try to overuse it if they dont know WHEN to use it....

If people wanted to keep the technique around, it must have at one time or another worked for them, dont u think?

[elbows_and_knees]

at one time or another... that's exactly the point. I don't care if people used the butterfly kick to evade low weapon sweeps back in the day - it's really not applicable now. People just hold on to tradition for the sake of holding on to tradition.

[Adonis]

Definetly agree with you elbows and knee's. I think alot of people hold onto things because of tradition. Even though its not applicable much now a days. Weather the technique worked at one time or another. How high percetage of a move is it. depends on the situation and the practioner but in most cases butterfly kick isn't a high situation percetage move any way.

[Shorin Ryuu]

I still don't see what it is about the palm heel strike (or at least the way I do it) that makes it so "unusable" in a fight. I just see posts that say "Yeah, but you can't use it that often" etc.

[Kajukenbopr]

Some of the original Kajukenbo techniques have palm heel strike as a means of blocking a punch, hurting the attacker's wrist and taking the arm away fromt he attackers body.

Today, those same techniques are used. The palm heel strike is still acknowledged as an effective strike.

--All kajukenbo techniques were used in street fights to test their effectiveness--

[BLueDevil]

I think its a good strike to protect you from breaking your hand, but natrually you sacrifice power you would otherwise have in a closed fist attack.

The only instance I saw a palm strike work rather effectively was Keith Hackney vs the Sumo giant in UFC 3. Other than that, Pancrase had rules restricting strikes with a closed fist to the face, and as a result you didnt see KO's when people were given a shot to the jaw.

seen in more places than that. in pancrase, closed fist strikes aren't allowed. watch some of those. Specifically, watch some of bas rutten's matches. He is a master of the palm strike.

I was just about to mention bas rutten. His first knockout was an ope palm to his opponent's liver! Alot of people dont realize how devistating an open hand is until they take one

[ovine king]

I still don't see what it is about the palm heel strike (or at least the way I do it) that makes it so "unusable" in a fight. I just see posts that say "Yeah, but you can't use it that often" etc.

it's not that people think it's un-usable,

it's because some people like to think that the thing that they use is better and hence, the thing that you do isn't as good and therefore either un-usable or un-realistic or ineffective.