Palm Heel Strike Overrated?

[Sam]

ok as everyone says - it has several advantage :

(1) the surface is more resiliant to impact damage

(2) the tool itself is easier to form [i.e. a correct fist is harder to form so you minimise damage].

(3) generally having your hands open presents a larger attacking tool increasing your chances of landing at least a glancing blow......

(4) lastly - the power from the heel is almost guaranteed to go throug teh forearm rather than act as a torsional force on the rist [as with a mis-aligned punch].

[elbows_and_knees]

Personally, I prefer the palm strike to a punch. Really, the only closed-fist technique I like is the backfist. It's all about knowing where to hit, too. A palm strike done improperly is less powerful than a punch, yes - but a properly executed one means you are hitting with about the same surface area, and about the same force. On the subject of targeting, a palm strike to the ribcage or jaw joint works a lot better than a punch, and is more likely to incapacitate an opponent. Plus, it's easier to not hurt your hand, haha!

In Christ,

Master Phil Stewart

4th Dan Tang Soo Do

like I said before - hard to soft, sort to hard. A palm heel to the gut won't do too much. you may want to use them both...

another issue is that of speed and versatility. I can't imagine throwing an uppercut with my palm, and it would be virtually useless for body shots to the lower torso. It's just a tradeoff dictated by where you like to strike, I suppose.

[TSDforChrist]

Well, I'm also coming from the philosophy that if I have to strike someone, I need to do enough damage to incapacitate them. A palm strike to the sternum, clavicle, the curve where the ribs join (draw a straight line down from your nipple), and the top of the pelvis (yes, all hard points) would be my ideal targets on the front of the torso. The only other one I can think of that I would use a closed fist on would be in attempting to drive the xiphoid process upwards into the heart or a lung. Straight on solar plexus shots, I prefer a spearhand...but, then, I've had a lot of finger training . I can't honestly think of any reason I would wish to hit someone in the "gut", when there are so many better targets there. Now, this is from a very limited viewpoint - I'm not a big guy, at all, and there are only 3 steps in my use of force: 1) you don't know what you are doing, I can walk away or control you. 2) you have a weapon, are significantly larger than me, outnumber me, or I'm in genuine fear and can justify some serious force, incapacitating you. And 3) you threaten my life or that of my wife, in which case we're talking about things more brutal and more designed to stop you than breaking ribs or knocking the wind out of you so I can get away.

Anyways, what I'm saying, is for me, personally, because of the amount of damage I can cause with it compared to a punch, if I have to strike I will palmheel before punching (most targets, anyways. And, honestly, if I have to strike, I'd rather snap off a knifehand to the clavicle and end it there - beleive me, it works).

In Christ,

Phil Stewart

[elbows_and_knees]

Well, I'm also coming from the philosophy that if I have to strike someone, I need to do enough damage to incapacitate them. A palm strike to the sternum, clavicle, the curve where the ribs join (draw a straight line down from your nipple), and the top of the pelvis (yes, all hard points) would be my ideal targets on the front of the torso. The only other one I can think of that I would use a closed fist on would be in attempting to drive the xiphoid process upwards into the heart or a lung. Straight on solar plexus shots, I prefer a spearhand...but, then, I've had a lot of finger training . I can't honestly think of any reason I would wish to hit someone in the "gut", when there are so many better targets there. Now, this is from a very limited viewpoint - I'm not a big guy, at all, and there are only 3 steps in my use of force: 1) you don't know what you are doing, I can walk away or control you. 2) you have a weapon, are significantly larger than me, outnumber me, or I'm in genuine fear and can justify some serious force, incapacitating you. And 3) you threaten my life or that of my wife, in which case we're talking about things more brutal and more designed to stop you than breaking ribs or knocking the wind out of you so I can get away.

Anyways, what I'm saying, is for me, personally, because of the amount of damage I can cause with it compared to a punch, if I have to strike I will palmheel before punching (most targets, anyways. And, honestly, if I have to strike, I'd rather snap off a knifehand to the clavicle and end it there - beleive me, it works).

In Christ,

Phil Stewart

Have you never hit someone in the liver area? that "gut punch" will end a confrontation fast. Heck there are boxers that are famous for dropping people with liver punches. a fist to the xiphoid process is good, as is a fist to the chin.

[TSDforChrist]

The point of the chin?? If your wrist twists at all, you'll shatter your metacarpals....ouch...

In Christ,

Phil Stewart

[White Warlock]

As 'elbows_and_knees' (hereon on to be called EaK) indicated, there's the old statement of 'soft vs hard' and 'hard vs soft,' but probably the most important reason for this statement was not indicated.

Take your open palm and strike a brick wall as hard as you are 'willing.'

Now, strike that same brick wall, as hard as you are 'willing,' with a fist.

Notice how your 'mind' prevents you from hitting as hard when you use the fist?

It is important to remember that in studying the martial arts, it is not merely about physicalities. In fact, the underlying factor in 'every' aspect of the martial arts... is mental. You fight the mind, you injure the body.

Learn how to work with the mind to do the most with the body, safely... and gain a better understanding of the martial art catchphrase, "mind and body."

Ugh. I'm feeling like i need to dispense fortune cookies with my posts.

Anyway, it is the restrictions that the mind imposes that makes the open palm far more effective than the fist when striking hard targets. When striking a hard target with the fist, the 'fear' of breaking your fingers, thumb, knuckles, or obtaining a wrist injury overrides your ability to generate unrestricted power. Instead, your mind intervenes, your opposing muscles tense in apprehension, your forearm stiffens to protect the wrist, and you subconsciously squint in expectation of the pain that is likely to follow. Indeed, your whole body gets involved in 'putting on the brakes.' For if it did not, odds are high that some part of you will break.

Now, on an open palm strike to a hard target, there is mental resistance as well. You hold back to some degree, but not nearly as much as you would when applying a fist strike.

Still, injury can be obtained, just as in any strike you commit to with your body. But, it is the ease of obtaining an injury, the multitude of ways an injury can be sustained, muscle support system associated with a particular strike, nerve sensitivity on the striking surface, the intended target shape and rigidity, the amount of 'natural' padding between the target and the striking surface, amount of 'proper' training and conditioning, and your experience that indicates just how much power you will be able to put into effect with any particular strike.

[SubGrappler]

As 'elbows_and_knees' (hereon on to be called EaK) indicated, there's the old statement of 'soft vs hard' and 'hard vs soft,' but probably the most important reason for this statement was not indicated.

Take your open palm and strike a brick wall as hard as you are 'willing.'

Now, strike that same brick wall, as hard as you are 'willing,' with a fist.

Notice how your 'mind' prevents you from hitting as hard when you use the fist?

Perhaps because you dont want to shatter your hand against a brick wall.....

Most people dont take into account they can break their hand over someones head until its already happened.

[Menjo]

Yea thats why like all techniques youd better know what you're doing if you really want it to work well,

[elbows_and_knees]

The point of the chin?? If your wrist twists at all, you'll shatter your metacarpals....ouch...

In Christ,

Phil Stewart

the point of the chin is knocking a person unconscious. There are alot of nerve bundles there. In addition, the jolt from the chin impact makes the brain rattle around and bounce off the walls of the skull, resulting in a person getting put to sleep. That's why you see so many KOs off the hook punch in boxing. the cheekbone is actually not very hard at all. And though the chin is harder, you are hitting it from an angle where it's not really reinforced by anything - instead of hitting it straight on, you are hitting it from the side. Your hands will be safe enough.

[Menjo]

Also it can break easly