Pa Kua Chuan and Hsing Yi Chuan

[ProjectJanus]

Anyone have any information on any of these styles or know where I can get some information? I only have basic information.

Pa Kua Chuan, 8 Trigrams Fist, is a fairly new art, dating back about 200 years. It consists of circular movements and twists to elude the enemy. When practicing the forms of Pa Kua Chuan, the practioner walks in a circle.

Hsing Yi Chuan, Shape The Mind Boxing, is based upon the five elements, and twelve animals. Hsing Yi Chuan utilizes a full range of body motion in striking. Also employed are close range grappling, throwing, trapping and locking techniques creating a highly adaptable, powerful, and overwhelming style of self-defense.

Anyone have anything else? I am particularly interested in Pa Kua Chuan, it sounds interesting.

[Fisherman]

If you want some 'good' info on either of these arts, I would try searching for Bagua or Baguazhang, and Xingyi or Xingyiquan. Sometimes just the way things are spelled will determine what kind of results you will get on your search.

In Gao style (what I train in) we have forms that are done on the circle (pre-heaven) and forms that are done on a straight line (post-heaven). The pre-heaven forms put more emphasis on training the body and how it's structure is used within Bagua. The post-heaven forms are used as methods to train the body too, however there is more emphasis on the fighting applications.

Your description of the fighting aspects of Xingyi are easily adaptable to Bagua. Within the Gao system, especially in regards to the Houtian (post-heaven) material there is a lot of Xingyi that is intermingled within the forms.

Hope this helps.

[KF Dude]

Here's two I know of:

https://www.hsing-i.com

https://www.emptyflower.com

[wolfman]

I've done hsingyi and am now learning bagua. What u said about hsing yi is right on except for the trapping. That really wouldnt be emphasized in hsing yi.

Hsing yi is a blasting art which means it always wants too power thru stuff. It trains you to have body connection (which is learning how to use the whole body in every strike). But training body connection also means building stabilizing muscles in the your legs and torso so u dont lose your posture.

A lot of people look at the five elements and think thats how hsing yi has to look like when you fight, but the five elements are really for excercises. You do lines (forms, kata simple to learn) of each element and do them over and over again to train your body to move correctly (like not over reaching). This also trains your legs to be really strong. Fighting wise it should look a lot sloppier, more like a gorrilla fighting. The five element fighting is more concept stuff and pp stuff too.

With hsing yi training you to be powerful and to just power thru stuff bagua takes that power and trains you to be more evasive. Now hsing yi trains to redirect and be evasive too but its real focus is developing power. So with bagua your hits should be just as strong as hsing yi but you should be able to move a lot better.

[Fisherman]

What u said about hsing yi is right on except for the trapping. That really wouldnt be emphasized in hsing yi.

Trapping may not be a heavily emphasized component to the fighting aspect of Xingyi, however, it is still utilized. Proper use of entry methods can often lead an opponent to a position where in you have their arms trapped in a manner where they cannot easily counter attack.

Trapping is a very useful component that is often overlooked within Xingyi simply because everything is happening so fast. The trap that occurs is not a full lock like qina, rather it is a method to disrupt the opponent's intent and redirect their focus away from the attack you are about to deliver.

A lot of people look at the five elements and think thats how hsing yi has to look like when you fight, but the five elements are really for excercises.

Agreed. As with Bagua and Taiji, the form and the application thereof do not neccessarily look anything alike. Form are a tool for you to use when you are training on your own. Spicific forms train specific things or specific ranges of motion within the body.

Fighting wise it should look a lot sloppier, more like a gorrilla fighting.

I'd disagree a bit on this statement. While the movements during fighting should be relaxed, quick, and fluid, they should not look sloppy. Fighting application of Xingyi should be compact, fierce, and direct leaving the opponent no room to breathe.

[wolfman]

When i said sloppier i didnt really mean "sloppier" just less regimented then the forms. When i saw some of the hits performed it really just reminded me of a guerilla swinging his arms. You still need to do it with proper body connection and everything.

On trapping i guess it depends on what type of trapping you mean. Wing chun type trapping wouldn't be used. Do you mean smothering your opponent arms as you overwhelm him with attacks, or knocking limbs out of the way? I was taught to mostly to do that stuff as far as trapping goes.

Fisherman your in colorado do you know william de thours? I think he lives their he's coming to tampa this weekend.

[Fisherman]

Wolfman

Sorry, I am not familiar with that name.

In regards to trapping. The trapping involved, (at least from what I have seen) would be similar to what you stated about smothering your opponent.

You would be smothering his ability to move to an effective counter attack.