why everyone hates Taekwondo

[monkeygirl]

I think a lot of style bashing comes down to ignorance and arrogance. A lot of people (in all aspects of life) like to shoot their mouths off about something they don't understand, so they can sound intelligent and superior. All the while they're hoping noone within earshot is a better authority on the subject. Who knows who they're trying to impress, but that's what they do.

I guess my point is that if you know your style doesn't fit the mold they're trying to shove you into, be the bigger person and humbly walk away. Your time is much better spent on people who respect you, than convincing someone who already has their mind made up.

[Kajukenbopr]

well, you are probably reffering to Traditional Tae Kwon Do which is a mroe complete martial art. It is pretty much like Karate, however, I have noticed KArate tends to be harder than trad Tae Kwon Do.

However, when people talk about olympic or sport Tae Kwon do and says he practices for self defense, they are wrongfully assuming, just because they can kick for a competition, they have learned all they need to defend him or herself.

I'm not saying it doesnt help, I'm saying its not all there is to it, is all.

[Kajukenbopr]

White Warlock, almost no one goes into martial arts instruction expecting to get rich. It just doesn't happen. Is anyone who makes a living a "profiteer"? Martial arts training is not so worthless that instructors should not get paid to do it.

Finding a good taekwondo school is certainly not harder than finding any other quality martial arts program. There are several organizations that closely regulate standards for student training, belt promotion, instructor training, and instructor certification. Of course you have to be wary of the independent guy who just starts teaching without any verifiable authority to teach, but If you do your homework and check certifications and references as well as observe or try classes you can easily eliminate the McDojos.

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Actually, i have to say that it is a profit machine.....

I'f I have 30 students which I train for 2 hour clases 2 times a week, just by asking $50/month per student.Its $1500 by instructing my students(and most schools have more than 20 students), add to that, their equipment(extra cost)-that I could provide if they buy ft from me. Then for exams for the belts from $50-300 or 400 as I've heard in some schools.

So with 30 students, I could gain from $1500 to who knows how much $ by giving a belt exam.

Besides training with me, the students must train at their homes to come prepared and work better next time, so I'm relaly giving out 16 hours of my time for $1000/month. Plus I get to have my full job the rest of the week.

After you get a black belt under you, you get him to teach for you, and so on, and on....

not there for profit,huh?

I'm not saying its wrong to charge for classes, but I think some schools take advantage of students and make them pay too much for the classes and exams. For a black belt exam I heard you have to pay $500 for a test that takes about 45 min. What costs so much that u have to pay $500 for 45 minutes??

[niel0092]

Not sure I agree with that. How much of that money goes to pay for rent for the dojang? I'd be willing to bet that $1500 a month for rent isn't out of the ordinary in some locals depending on their facility and location. Think about retail space costs in strip malls for example. Now I know for a fact that our instructors dont get paid and our fees go to pay rent on the building, heat, electricity, etc and if there's any left over at the end of the month we buy new equipment (it doesn't happen all that often). I think this is what really happens in most schools, regardless of style.

Now the excessive belt fees I dont understand at all, but we dont pay those so I dont know how common a practice that is in reality. Maybe we should do a poll to find out how many people on this site pay that much. My guess is that it's not too many.

Respectfully,

niel0092

[tkdBill]

Kajukenbopr, you think that $1500 or even $3000 per month is a great living?? Where do you live? with a family of 5, I think that would put me below the poverty line! Of course there are people on this forum who think their instructor or sensei should be poor

Since I teach classes 6 days a week afternoons and evenings, I don't "get" to have another job.

I pay more than $3000/month in rent alone, and plenty on electric, gas, insurance, taxes. My rent is actually quite reasonable for the Dallas area, I know instructors who pay considerably more.

For a black belt exam I heard you have to pay $500 for a test that takes about 45 min. What costs so much that u have to pay $500 for 45 minutes??

I agree, $500 is steep for a BB test. I don't charge that much. My dentist charges more than that for root canal and only spends about 45 minutes with me. I don't ask him to justify every dollar I pay him, I just want him to be good!! I'm sure he has a nicer car and bigger house than me. I'm not sure I want a poor, struggling dentist working on me.

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[Enviroman]

Kajukenbopr, you think that $1500 or even $3000 per month is a great living?? Where do you live? with a family of 5, I think that would put me below the poverty line! Of course there are people on this forum who think their instructor or sensei should be poor

If you cleared $3000 a month (after school rent) you'd be well above the poverty line. Even if you cleared $1500 you'd just barely qualify for any assistance (assuming ~$3800 for rent and utilities for MA school and that Texas takes into account a small business' expenses) as your gross annual income would still be in excess of $60k per year. Does your spouse not work?

Since I teach classes 6 days a week afternoons and evenings, I don't "get" to have another job.

Well you choose to teach that much. If you decided to cut back on teaching (I'm not saying you should) you could have another job if you so wished.

I agree, $500 is steep for a BB test. I don't charge that much. My dentist charges more than that for root canal and only spends about 45 minutes with me. I don't ask him to justify every dollar I pay him, I just want him to be good!! I'm sure he has a nicer car and bigger house than me. I'm not sure I want a poor, struggling dentist working on me.

Denistry (or any other advanced degree profession) != Tae Kwon Do (or any other MA). Both require a lot of training but one requires much more skill and knowledge than the other (you can debate it, but I'm fairly certain that your average person has a better shot at becoming a qualified instructor than becoming a dentist). Then again, people are willing to pay you to learn, so the more power to you. I believe in capitalism and you are just taking advantage (not meant in a derogatory manner) of a market that is willing to pay your fees for your service.

I think the problem most people have is that martial arts, historically, is well an art. They feel that by profitting and commercializing the art you are detracting from it.

Edited July 19, 2005 by Enviroman

[Muaythaiboxer]

i dont have a problem with paying dues so the school can stay opean but i have a huge problem when a school starts to take advantage of its students to make more money by constantly raiseing the prices and forceing them to buy extra equiptment if they want to compete my friend had to quit a TKD organisation because they kept raiseing the price and kept tacking on more expenses im not saying all schools are like that but evey time i see a big organisation i see a lot more money and alot less skill in the schools (just my experience)

[tkdBill]

Should the owner of a full-time MA school be poor to be a great instructor? I know I won't make what my dentist makes (MA schools are not profit machines), but I think I should make a reasonable living for my family and maybe send my kids to college someday. I don't expect my students to ask me to show them how I spend every dollar.

If anything, dedicating my life to teaching martial arts has made me a better instructor than when I was teaching part-time and working a full-time job to pay the bills. Now MA is my profession, and my full time and attention is focused on teaching and improving my own skills.

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[Enviroman]

Should the owner of a full-time MA school be poor to be a great instructor? I know I won't make what my dentist makes (MA schools are not profit machines), but I think I should make a reasonable living for my family and maybe send my kids to college someday. I don't expect my students to ask me to show them how I spend every dollar.

If anything, dedicating my life to teaching martial arts has made me a better instructor than when I was teaching part-time and working a full-time job to pay the bills. Now MA is my profession, and my full time and attention is focused on teaching and improving my own skills.

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I'm not saying you can't profit from teaching martial arts. As a responsible businessman you should not be adverse to telling your students how you spend their belt fees and whatnot should they ask. If hire a contractor and they decide to charge me a fee for chimney repair, you better believe I want to see how it is broken down. If they tell me "$300 total; $25 for materials and $275 for labor" I'll be ticked!

The entire point is trust and honesty. It's great that you can make a living doing what you enjoy. But you (not you specifically, just in general) also need to be honest. If you're charging $300 per belt just so you can add to your profit margin, you're doing a disservice to your clients if they believe those fees are going to actual testing costs or whatnot.

[tkdBill]

Enviroman, I agree with you. I also agree that $300 belt test fee is far to high. I personally have not seen that, but I'm sure it exists.

If hire a contractor and they decide to charge me a fee for chimney repair, you better believe I want to see how it is broken down. If they tell me "$300 total; $25 for materials and $275 for labor" I'll be ticked!

He will most likely tell you $100 for materials and $200 for labor. The material cost he lists is what he's selling it to you for. Same thing in an auto repair shop. If they list a parts charge of $175 for an alternator, that is their selling price to you. They are probably paying half that. This is a generally accepted business practice.

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