why everyone hates Taekwondo

[Sam]

Then i guess we're agreeing ot agree lol

I have no problem with WTF style TKD, i would just prefer it if TKD wasnt generalised by that standard.

[Garth Barnard]

TKD is NOT predominately a sport..... might be where you train but in my experience its not....

secondly - learning scenarios (if he does this you do this) may not be the best way of learning SD.

TKD IS predominatly a sport, especially WTF style!

Learning scenarios, done correctly, are totally the opposite to "if he does this, you do that". A scenario/situation is set and the actions and reactions follow in a natural manner, which is a far cry from the normal TKD SD.

Suprise me, I bet your TKD SD starts off with you and your opponent stood opposite each other. One of you will hold out one arm and the other will grab it. You are then instructed to perform a release from a wrist grab. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that doesn't happen in the real world! All SD must be performed with 'energy' and 'aliveness' to be realistic.

Out of interest, do you ever Pressure Test your SD techniques?

Take care,

Garth.

[white belt]

If by pressure test you mean is speed and pressure involved then yes this is done. Yes, of course they are learned with two of you facing each other but after that you are tested at random with speed and pressure. For example during class one of the instructors might sneak up on you and choke you from behind, and no they are not willing to go wherever you want them so like I said before you have to use speed, force, and pressure.

[Enviroman]

Suprise me, I bet your TKD SD starts off with you and your opponent stood opposite each other. One of you will hold out one arm and the other will grab it. You are then instructed to perform a release from a wrist grab. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that doesn't happen in the real world! All SD must be performed with 'energy' and 'aliveness' to be realistic.

Garth.

That's exactly how I learned SD in Aikido and Uechi-Ryu...at least at first. Other styles do it differently?

[Garth Barnard]

If by pressure test you mean is speed and pressure involved.......

By Pressure Test I mean that you are put under extreme pressure, and where you are verbally and physically intimidated to induce an 'Adrenaline Dump', by one or more padded assailants. Under the influence of the 'Adrenaline Dump' you soon learn what it really feels like to be in an aggressive confrontation, and you soon learn that many of the 'twisty wristy' fine motor skill techniques simply aren't processed by the brain.

Regular Pressure Tests familiarise you with the affects of adrenaline and help to de-sensitise you. You will then be able to breathe deeper, lower your heart rate and use rational skills to verbally and/or physically deal with your aggressor.

Adrenaline Management is a fundamental skill that is often overlooked in the martial arts world, certainly in terms of self-defence.

Take care,

Garth.

[y2_sub]

When I first wanted to join the martial arts world , I was impressed by TKD , so I signed in a WTF TKD dojo and I loved training there . When my parents moved to another city(8 years ago ) , I joined a kyokushin dojo but I still constantly visit TKD dojos and I STILL love the art .

No one here says that TKD is useless or ineffective , what we say is , compared to other martial arts ,"WTF" TKD can prove to be flashy and sport oriented

[Sam]

to clarify: garth_barnard.... my SD training doesnt start with that.... but i know what u mean.... generally a lot of TKD SD does start in that way... .and TKD IS NOT predominately a sport.... the majority of Dojangs are sport orientated but the art itself is not.... I agree that WTF the style is sport orientated

Also im not being rude here but i would prefer it if i wasnt talked down to... I constantly put forward that idea that a lot of your effectiveness is down to how you train.... which is what ur suggesting.

[ivette_green]

I get the impression that many TKD dojos push their students through ranks quickly, so that they can charge for more testings. They seem to pump out black belts that still have very little knowledge. Kids are given black belts and there's no way that those kids have been training long enough to pick up on things that only time can give them. I know a small town where there are four TKD dojos. I do think that way back when TKD was less commercialized it was probably better. I will agree that there probably are some good training halls out there for TKD, but that there are even more run by people too interested in money.

[Sauzin]

Every teacher is unique and brings unique qualities and knowledge to his teachings regardless of style. But to understand some of the grips against TKD you have to understand the history. The evolution or migration of TKD goes something like this:

Northern China (northern sholin and crane arts)>Okinawa (karate) >Japan(by way of Funikoshi's Shotokan)>Korea (by training Korean officers in the Japanese academy)

At that point TKD decided to forsake it's Shotokan heritage and stop doing the Shotokan kata they originally practiced. They made up a whole bunch of forms which ended up basically being a compilation of different kicks and basic techniques. Shortly there after TKD became an Olympic sport. Somewhere in there TKD decided forms were only good for testing and could not be used in a real fight. This is where many instructors brought in defenses from other systems to maintain some relevance to defense.

Now you might wonder why I mentioned forms or kata in the history. Please understand that the oldest Chinese and Okinawan masters who have carried their original arts on have this much to say. Kata (or forms) are the art. Without them there is no art. So, in my opinion, the greatest lost to TKD was when the gave up their original kata effectively throwing way generations and generations of teachings and self defense. This is not to say that all TKD is ineffective. Far from it. But in my opinion the street effectiveness of TKD relies largely on the quality of the teacher and what he brings to the art.

[Skeptic 2004]

I'll second Sauzin. Many TKD schools have strayed far from their roots. Early in my training I met a traditionally trained TKD-ka (something I'd later find out was rare. I've only met 2), and he was one of the most impressive martial artist's I'd ever seen, so much so that I trained TKD for a while with him as my role model. I was disappointed to discover during the brief 2 months I gave TKD a go that it was rife with really bad body mechanics and poor fighting/self defense strategy, at least at the place I was training. I attribute these two failures first and foremost to abandoning its kata roots, and secondly to its predominant focus on tournament fighting - I had a penchant for walking right up to my opponent, absorbing his weak and off-balance kick as he was completely weirded out by me walking up to him, and nailing him square in the chest (I never won as the weak kick scored the point every time).

While I know I shouldn't let ONE bad experience taint my view, the simple fact of the matter is that other TKD schools I've had the privilege of observing or other TKD-ka I've had the privilege of watching continue in this vein of bad body mechanics and poor strategy (save the single consumate, traditionally trained TKD-ka I met several years ago).