Shorin ryu kata

[j1123s]

I have been told that Shobayashi kata are different than other versions. for example their pinans look different than other shorin ryu style pinans.

Is this true? Are there any books that show this difference ?

Thanks.

[P.A.L]

it's possible , i'v never seen a book that shows the diffrences since it's not that important, for example some people say in chibana lineage some of the side kicks(pinan yondan) changed to front kicks. for each kata you have to go deeper and see what the roots are, let's say tomari chinto, it come from tomari-te so kyan's chinto should be close to original then Nagamine got it from kyan so the Matsubayashi shorin ryu version should be very close to tomari chinto, i've never seen shobayashi chinto but i can guess it is close to matsubayahi ryu.

In shindo jenin ryu we use side kick in pinan yondan same as shito ryu and shotokan , since this all goes back directly to itosu , i would say the original version of pinan yondan had side kick , how we (kobayashi and matsubayahi) ended up with front snap kick,i don't know, may be itosu changed it later or chibana changed it?

in general the diffrences are not that important among shuri te katas, with one exception which i can't tell you due to respect for other styles and practitioners.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Really? I was always under the impression that if kicks were changed, it was usually from a front kick to a side kick rather than the other way around.

Oh, and you can PM me that other difference. I don't get offended (only curious).

[ONE TROOF]

I have been told that Shobayashi kata are different than other versions. for example their pinans look different than other shorin ryu style pinans.

Is this true? Are there any books that show this difference ?

Thanks.

Here is an example of a Seibukan (Sukunaihayashi) kata: http://www.uechi-ryu.com/videos/tc_videos.html

(Go to the Zenpo Shimabukuro clip)

With the exception of the sidekicks it is almost exactly like all the other Shorin Kusanku I've seen.

Kyan O'Sensei learned a lot of his karate from Kosaku Matsumora. These Tomari versions were often wider and deeper stanced. He also learned directly from Sokon Matsumura, so many of his Matsumura Kata are very similar to the Kobayashi versions.

As for the original kick seen in Pinan Shodan, it was always a front kick. There are very few instances where a side kick is used in kata, and if the version you're doing uses a sidekick where a front kick should be then you're doing a gendai variation or a version that is non-Matsumura or Itosu derived. Side kicks are less balanced and leave one side of your body pretty much ineffectual.

[P.A.L]

I have been told that Shobayashi kata are different than other versions. for example their pinans look different than other shorin ryu style pinans.

Is this true? Are there any books that show this difference ?

Thanks.

Here is an example of a Seibukan (Sukunaihayashi) kata: http://www.uechi-ryu.com/videos/tc_videos.html

(Go to the Zenpo Shimabukuro clip)

With the exception of the sidekicks it is almost exactly like all the other Shorin Kusanku I've seen.

Kyan O'Sensei learned a lot of his karate from Kosaku Matsumora. These Tomari versions were often wider and deeper stanced. He also learned directly from Sokon Matsumura, so many of his Matsumura Kata are very similar to the Kobayashi versions.

As for the original kick seen in Pinan Shodan, it was always a front kick. There are very few instances where a side kick is used in kata, and if the version you're doing uses a sidekick where a front kick should be then you're doing a gendai variation or a version that is non-Matsumura or Itosu derived. Side kicks are less balanced and leave one side of your body pretty much ineffectual.

shorinkan uses front kick in pinan shodan while many others use side kick, one thing that makes me confused is the relation between kusanku dai and pinan shodan, shorin kan uses side kick in begining of kusanku dai while pinan shodan (which could be a simple form based on kusanku) use front kick, from other hand i've seen one of the chibana sensei student in okinawa also use front kick at the beginig of kusanku dai, anyway not a big deal.

one troof

how close are two pinan katas of matsumura seito with pinans in shorinkan ?

talking of side kicks, the only one i know in white crane katas is shu tsuru ken is there any more , since i only know 9 katas, i heard of sensei lindsey there are 14 main katas(not sure)

[j1123s]

Thanks for the info everyone. I have been exploring the roots and history of the katas, so this info helps. The Version of Pinan shodan that we do in our style has no kick at all. I've been told we are shobayashi based but there have been changes made to the kata's in our lineage.

[P.A.L]

Thanks for the info everyone. I have been exploring the roots and history of the katas, so this info helps. The Version of Pinan shodan that we do in our style has no kick at all. I've been told we are shobayashi based but there have been changes made to the kata's in our lineage.

may be in your style they changed the name from pinan nidan to shodan like some japanies styles of karate. in this case the kick we been talking about is part of pinan nidan.

[j1123s]

may be in your style they changed the name from pinan nidan to shodan like some japanies styles of karate. in this case the kick we been talking about is part of pinan nidan.

There have been changes in our kata. Our Pinan shodan is all ,gedan barai, lunge punch, rising blocks and shutos. I'm told this was most likley pinan nidan at one point.

[P.A.L]

may be in your style they changed the name from pinan nidan to shodan like some japanies styles of karate. in this case the kick we been talking about is part of pinan nidan.

There have been changes in our kata. Our Pinan shodan is all ,gedan barai, lunge punch, rising blocks and shutos. I'm told this was most likley pinan nidan at one point.

that's right, it is pinan nidan, sensei funakoshi changed the name after he represented his karate to japan.