Insight on Double Promotion

[nago]

Belts are just that. Belts. I train in a traditional dojo in Okinawa. We only have four belts to begin with. White, Green, Brown Black of course there are the normal kyu and dan levels. We have a 17 year old testing for shodan next month. It will be his first test ever. He has been training since he was 4 yrs old. Also he is the great-grandson of the founder of Uechi-Ryu. He trains for other reasons then to be able to wear a piece of colored material. The belts do not measure the person the skill does. Many of our students train for years as a white belt then test for black. I see no problem in holding off till you have the skills and knowledge to test for higher ranks. The only thing it will hurt is some peoples egos and pocketbocks. just my opinion.

[pepto_bismol]

if you were a black belt in several styles or if you were an instructor and you decided to join a differant karate school, don't you think it would be unfair to start you as a white belt because when all of the other students would be struggling to kick to the head you would be busy throwing butterfly kicks and working on your kumite skills.

I mean once your a black belt, your a black belt.

I don't think it would be fair to you or any of your peers.

( I don't know if I presented my idea right but hopefully you guys get what I am trying to say)

[White Warlock]

i understood, and i don't agree. All styles are not created equal, nor are all black belts equally qualified. You may be a black belt in one system that has little to nothing in common with another system.

Actually, I'm not really sure where this particular discussion fits in with the discussion about double promotion.

[patusai]

There have been a number of masters who studied in japan, reached shodan and by the time they got back to the states had 7dan written all over them and it was with the approval of their instructor in japan who happened to be the head of the system. Just as a college degree is nothing more than a piece of paper that represents something more than paper the black belt is nothing more than a colored piece of material that represents something more that a black piece of material -- be is 1st, 2nd or 8th degree. Is it right that someone go from a 2nd dan to a 4th dan? It's not up to me it is up to their instructor. Really, nobody should have anything to say about it. You don't have to like it, agree with it or think that it is the sound thing to do. Back in the day, there were no 1st, 2nd...etc degrees. They had titles. Nobody skipped a title (to my knowledge) Titles and degrees are two different things. Again, it's up the the instructor...IMHO.

[Gen_Tora]

I have about six black belts at 25, I been training in MA since I was 2 so go figure, & all but one system I'm a shodan (yippy!) Which doesn't qualify me to teach or promote anyone past a 1st kyu. Now, I once when to a karate class with a friend of mine when I was 16. The instructor, wanted to give me my orange belt (??? Kyu) day one because she realised I had "talent." I never said I knew anything or had any belts.

My friend eventually told his sensei I was a black belt in at the time 5 different style. Bare in mind nothing above a shodan, in a system which goes upto tenth dan a shodan doesn't mean much. However, the sensei wanted to spar me, she was X-army & had 4 blackbelts to her name. TKD, Hapkido, judo & shotokan.

Some of the techniques I used she had never seen before, although she outranked me in shotokan & I was using shotokan (based on the origional core techniques & methods used by Funakoshi) I wasn't USKA. She swore I was a 4th or 5th dan.

The point is what may be a shodan in one style, was a like a yodan or godan in another. Even in the same system different organization have completely different standards. So schools, organizations & even individuals don't learn how things work or why they are there. My old shotokan instructor, Sensei Massey left Japan a Sandan but had met all the requirements for Godan by USKA standards. In cass where such a situation was present, then yes double promotion is acceptable.

later,

Ron

[kreza]

(been lurking here for ages, but this is the first subject I feel I can contribute towards properly)

I trained for just over a year in Shotokan karate when I was 12 years old, reaching 7th Kyu (yellow).

3 months ago I rejoined my old dojo (as a white belt) at the ripe age of 26, and was delighted to find the same club running, with the same sensei. I have trained hard over the past few months, and was permitted to to skip 9th and 8th Kyu, so now I am back to Yellow where I left off.

I don't believe my sensei would have permitted this if he didn't think I was up to it, he is quite strict and I have seen him refuse to allow some people to grade if they are not up to it.

That said, I think this was a special circumstance, and in the normal course of things people should make their way up the ranks properly.

[ramymensa]

A rank can be doubled in my opinion if a person is indeed skilled. I have seen some awesome MAists who were awarded a double rank since they were indeed great. This can be done at lower ranks quite well and if the instructor is a picky as mine, then you can be sure till BB is all blood, sweat and tears

[3]

Multiple promotion is like skipping a grade in school. If a student is truly prodigious in martial arts, then he or she, should remain progressing normally throughout the ranks. If a student skips a grade in school, he or she will not do as well as they would remaining in the same grade, which could cause them to gradually fall behind.

[joesteph]

There are ten "gups" in my art, Soo Bahk Do, and all white belts start off as tenth gup. Ninth gup would be a single blue stripe; eighth gup would be orange belt.

I learned from my instructor when I was working on promotion from white belt--at tenth gup--that it was for orange belt. The lower level of the belt (only so much is required of a rank beginner) accommodated that someone, usually an adult, could fulfill requirements to reach orange in one test. There was a ninth gup who was a young girl; she was too old to be a Little Tiger, but was not a teen. The blue stripe she wore on her white belt recognized her improvement from tenth gup, and when we all took the orange belt test together, we all moved to eighth. There's no more double-promotion offered.

This does bring up the question, of course, of a person who's in one art, particularly a related one, being recognized at a higher belt level than white--or not. It might prove counterproductive to have someone with a dan (or perhaps brown belt) ranking in a related art "learning" low block, etc., and spending (losing?) time that could be used for higher-level training in the art. That person would likely be on a fast track, which the organization the dojo/dojang is associated with would have to agree to. This doesn't mean giving the higher belt away; it means the person on this fast track has the opportunity to reach a higher belt rank through testing at a pace more rapid than another, "regular," student. It may or may not mean double-promotion.

[bushido_man96]

I think that this is usually at the discretion of the instructor. I went from one TKD org to another, so I moved up a few belts each test. I would not expect this in the Aikdo classes I take, as they don't relate that much. Likewise, I wouldn't expect the same to happen in a Karate class, either. In the end, it may depend on the student's ability to assimilate the curriuclum, and at what level of understanding.