Help! What are we bowing to before class in Kyokushin?

[Bleeding Lion]

We bow to satan...

thats too funny

[Karate_Girl_07]

Thanks for your help guys. I took my written test last week and only got one quesiton wrong. I was supposed to re-take the test (my sensei considers a pass for this test a 100%) but since I only got one wrong, Sensei just asked me the question in person and I didn't have to retake it! I'm so happy. Now I only have to worry about the physical grading XD.

[24fightingchickens]

The bowing is a sign of respect - don't leave that out.

When I train with my buddy we always leave it out. I always leave it out when I train alone, as well.

I'm not Japanese. I see no reason that I should continue the practice of bowing other than the same reasons Ballet instructors still teach movements in French. It's just a cultural thing nowadays.

Its not like I am disrespectful toward my students and training buddies when I great them with, "How's it going?"

When I visit a club, if everyone is bowing everywhere, I try to keep it to a minimum and yet stay within the rules of the club. But really I feel uncomfortable bowing when I am not in Japan. It seems wierd, especially when the people bowing back often bow unnaturally, at inappropriate times, overly deep, overly shallow, or overly dramatic with too many histrionics.

[b3n]

24fightingchickens:

Do you call your grades Kyu's?

Do you call your uniform a Gi?

Do you call your style Shotokan?

Isnt using these words outside of Japan weird to you?

I think you get my point...

You are a karateka correct? It's all part of the deal.

Traditionally, thats how it is done, whether you do it with your buddies is a different matter.

[Jussi Häkkinen]

24fightingchickens:

Do you call your grades Kyu's?

Do you call your uniform a Gi?

Do you call your style Shotokan?

Isnt using these words outside of Japan weird to you?

I think you get my point...

You are a karateka correct? It's all part of the deal.

Actually, no. Training uniform, grades and language used in the dojo are not bound to karate. Karate (or a karate style) is simply a way to teach unarmed fighting and healthy exercises (according to many masters, health is the most important goal of karate) to a student. Language, uniform and everything else is just decoration, not the point itself.

[b3n]

Language, uniform and everything else is just decoration, not the point itself.

The why do they even exist? ...The Japanese language is a decoration? Oh dear...

The point i was trying to make wasnt that those things are absoloutly essential, but that he accepts as part of his karate training...yet he doesnt bow.

[kyospirit]

The Shinzen has nothing to do with Budhism.

Every traditional dojo has a shinzen and is usually composed by the pictures of the founder , symbols and kanjis .

Shinzen has a spiritual meaning and is not conected with any religion.

[Jussi Häkkinen]

Shinzen has a spiritual meaning and is not conected with any religion.

What kind of spiritual meaning does a shinzen have?

[24fightingchickens]

24fightingchickens:

Do you call your grades Kyu's?

Do you call your uniform a Gi?

Do you call your style Shotokan?

Isnt using these words outside of Japan weird to you?

No, I do not find it wierd for me to speak Japanese words that I have been trained how to pronounce "wierd." I do feel wierd trying to imitate a Japanese while interacting with someone else trying to imitate a Japanese when neither of us has the background to bow properly.

You are a karateka correct? It's all part of the deal.

I disagree. There is no "deal." I do not have to do anything that I do not enjoy as part of my karate. I do not have to purchase and retain the entire package. It is mine to do with what I want.

Traditionally, thats how it is done.

That is irrelevant to me.

[24fightingchickens]

The Shinzen has nothing to do with Budhism.

Every traditional dojo has a shinzen and is usually composed by the pictures of the founder , symbols and kanjis .

Shinzen has a spiritual meaning and is not conected with any religion.

Isn't the "shin" in shinzen the kanji for "God?"

神前

And doesn't the word shinzen literally mean "before the altar" or "before God?"

Aren't the pictures on the walls bowed to on the wall specifically because Japan incorporates Buddhism in her society - particularly related to death, and kamidana, shinzen, and shinza are there as a sort of altar to these ancestors because of that?