Where is the martial in the Martial Arts?

[parkerlineage]

I've been thinking about this since I started posting on this forum...it seems that the most common concensus is that we should not use our arts to fight people.

While I certainly condemn looking for fights, it sounds as though most people say that you should try to talk your way out of a fight, even take a few hits, rather than do anything.

I don't think I would wait around to get sucker-punched by the guy in front of me while his two buddies come up behind to kick in my skull while I'm laying on the ground. If I get into a situation that I find dangerous, and talking fails after a few seconds, you better believe I'm going to employ the martial part of my art on whomever is asking for it.

So, my question is, are we throwing punches in the dojo because they look pretty, and reaching "inner peace" so we can try to babble our way out of fighting, or are we training to remove ourselves (or, more accurately, our opponents) from dangerous situations?

[UseoForce]

Avoid fights if possible.

Failing that, end the fight as efficently as possible.

[tsdtony]

of coars avoid fighting at all cost.but the fact of the matter is you cant aviod every fight.So when put into that situation you need to not heasate to defind your self.Because by the time there attacking you you have already tried to avoide it.There for most likly thay just wouldent let you get out of it in that case by all means run theam into the ground defind yourself.

[SyracuseJundokan]

It's a reflection of the ultimate irony in warfare: That the better prepared you are for war, the less likely it is that you will do battle...

For more insight into this, read Sun Tsu...

[busling]

I started Martial Arts for fitness and self-defense. I will always try to verbal stop the situation. However I will not hold back if the situation dictates that I use force to subdue someone. If a situation is escalating towards violence, my best chance of survival is to strike them before they are ready.

Along a similar line to Sun Tzu's thinking. The drunker you get, the more likely you will want to fight, but the less capable you will be.

[Sam]

hmmm... I agree with this - i hear a lot of people saying that you should never as an MA [especially a youung MA in my case] get into a fight. Well sometimes its unavoidable, we train to be able to fight so we can avoid it because we have nothing ot prove, but sometimes its just a necessity. I personally like the shape of my nose so i dont wnat it splatted all over my cheeks, and will take steps to avoid this.

Obviously avoiding or diffusing confrontation is a step to avoiding thing, but that may not work; and one has to be prepared to use what you learn to defend yourself or others.

my 2cents.

[Aodhan]

I've been thinking about this since I started posting on this forum...it seems that the most common concensus is that we should not use our arts to fight people.

While I certainly condemn looking for fights, it sounds as though most people say that you should try to talk your way out of a fight, even take a few hits, rather than do anything.

I don't think I would wait around to get sucker-punched by the guy in front of me while his two buddies come up behind to kick in my skull while I'm laying on the ground. If I get into a situation that I find dangerous, and talking fails after a few seconds, you better believe I'm going to employ the martial part of my art on whomever is asking for it.

So, my question is, are we throwing punches in the dojo because they look pretty, and reaching "inner peace" so we can try to babble our way out of fighting, or are we training to remove ourselves (or, more accurately, our opponents) from dangerous situations?

For your question, I would say that it depends on the dojo. Some teach the pretty punches, some teach the maim them philosophy. Our school teaches a middle road. Do what you can to avoid/get out of a confrontation, but don't let yourself be a doormat either.

Part of the danger is the litigious nature of society anymore. If you get accosted, and "take him out", if you didn't wait for him to throw the punch, you can get sued/arrested in return. Then it's up to the judge or jury to decide if you acted with prudence or if you are at fault. If faced with that situation, I'd let them throw the first punch before I reacted (Assuming they aren't armed, of course).

Aodhan

[BullsEye]

For your question, I would say that it depends on the dojo. Some teach the pretty punches, some teach the maim them philosophy. Our school teaches a middle road. Do what you can to avoid/get out of a confrontation, but don't let yourself be a doormat either.

Part of the danger is the litigious nature of society anymore. If you get accosted, and "take him out", if you didn't wait for him to throw the punch, you can get sued/arrested in return. Then it's up to the judge or jury to decide if you acted with prudence or if you are at fault. If faced with that situation, I'd let them throw the first punch before I reacted (Assuming they aren't armed, of course).Aodhan

I agree with Aodham here. The question really depends on the circumstance/situation/and dojo. To me, martial arts was more about growing your soul - the punches and kicking empowered you with a sense of confidence/capability/ and a relative feeling of safety ("I can take care of myself and my loved ones IF the occassion arises).

Then it also teaches the humbleness, politeness, integrity, etc. But to me, a larger portion of it comes from building the self-confidence - and one of the best ways to do that is to feel safe/capable/and like I mentioned above confident. Just my $0.02

BullsEye

[scottnshelly]

My philosophy is avoid, prevent, dissuade, control, finish. Allow me to elaborate. My first line of defense is to avoid a fight. I do this by avoiding rowdy bars, bad neighborhoods and people that just don’t like me. If I am not able to avoid these areas, then I prevent a fight by not running my mouth, I don’t wear controversial clothes and I don’t cause any trouble. If someone comes looking for a fight and I’m not able to prevent it, then my next line is to dissuade. I can usually talk someone out of a fight; there are many methods of this, humor, distraction, ignoring, etc. This is the furthest I’ve ever gone; I’ve never lost a fight because I always beat them at the dissuasion phase. If I were to have to fight, I would control and then end the fight as soon as possible.

I don’t use the ‘never fight, ever’ method, nor do I go looking for fights. As you can see, I fall somewhere in the middle. Of course I’m going to say that I think that everyone should follow this, but that’s because I’m biased toward my method.

[jarrettmeyer]

That's a nice progression, scottnshelly. It makes a lot of sense, and it shows that we must consider fighting to be an option. We train to fight. We must be prepared for that possibility. We can do what we'd like to avoid it, but we must be always prepared.