kenpo vs tae kwon do or karate

[wingedsoldier]

other than the techniques, what seperates kenpo from tae kwon do and karate?

[Triddle]

well, i dont think this is the answer your looking for, but it depends on the school of each art your comparing... For example in tkd; traditional schools and the more common sport style schools are very very different. I dont know very much about Kenpo, and only a bit about Karate, lol. But i suppose the main difference is probably the way they train, and how much they focus on the different aspects of martial arts.

For example, my school doesn't compete at all, and frowns upon competition (particulary olympic style tkd competition) because we think that it can be detrimental to your fighting ability, and that its not really in the true spirit of MAs, but then, thats just my schools opinion, could be totally off the mark (although i beleive in it), i know some people who do Karate, and they are pretty much left to formulate their own opinions on basically everything, they are taught the physical aspect of the art, and how they choose to use it, their state of mind etc, is left to them (although i don't think this is how Karate is normally trained, and im sure the way I train tkd is fairly different to average). My friends who do karate never do board breaking, where in my style it is very important as we use it to show the power of our strikes, and for gradings etc. Another thing that can be quite different depending on schools is how easy or hard it is to get belts, and the importance placed on belts, for example, in my style, white up to the 1 before black are not that difficult, not many people fail here and most people get up these fairly quickly, however, once your grading for black and above it all changes, as we consider this the beggining of your real training, and prior to that your kinda... preparing to train... lol, might sound silly to some people but i like it. Where other styles might have it hard all the way, or easy all the way.

Ive seen many people fail grading for their black belt, and ive seen some pretty bad injuries from people trying to do it, because although we spar non-contact, once your in these ranks you will get hit (not beause people cant control themselves, but to make sure you know what its like to get hit) ive seen a guy kicked to the ground 3 or 4 times in a row grading for black, fairly hard too, not bone breaking hard, but hard enough to hurt, lol, the attitude among black belts when were hit is basically "i deserve it for not blocking/dodging" even when you are on the ground in pain, it was YOUR fault, not the guy who hit you's, i like that too, lots of people say "if you dont train getting hit you cant fight" etc etc well, I train getting hit without any armour on at all, although we generally dont use contact, id prefer this to sparring with lots of rules and armour,alot of people, however, would prefer always training to get hit, but with the armour, instead of the occasional hit and only when your black and up. Im getting carried away now, sorry, back to the subject at hand, while i train like that, my friends train with armour, and with no contact at all basically, and although some people might think karate is just plain "better" than tkd because of what they see as greater practicality (yes my style does jumping/spinning high kicks, and yes, i think they are practical, in some situations, and yes, i have felt the pain you feel when something goes wrong doing these) now before i carry on more, ill point out how this is relevant... i said at the start its the school that makes the difference, not the style.

also, im not saying my friends style is worse than mine because of their different training methods, personally, i prefer mine, but i know they are good fighters, and good people, their training style works for them, and mine for me.

So... to sum it up, what im basically saying is, the school makes the difference, not the art (and yes, the person makes alot of difference too) some people might get better training doing it the way i do, some the way my friends do, some from competing and getting hit all the time. The way i see it, the only real differneces the individual arts have, is the techniques themselves, and where the arts come from. Although its more common to train certain ways in certain arts, such as tkd training for olympic style 1 kick 1 point, start over type thing, and boxing training for long punch-em-ups, its all in the school and the instuctor in my opinion, although i could be wrong.

Sorry for the horrible structure of my post, and for getting carried away, i was quite tired writing this, so ive tried to make it at least semi-readable, if you need me to clarify anything where drowsieness has gotten the better of me, please just let me know. I hope this post is contructive, if not, im sorry for wasting your time. i know this is long, but i think there ARE some valid points, so if you have time, you might like to read it, if not, at least read the summary

[parkerlineage]

I think you just asked a question that would take a lifetime of training in all the mentioned arts to determine.

The basic answer, I suppose, would be a lot, but very little.

Tae Kwan Do involves a lot of kicking (generally), but it depends on who your instructor is, and how you trian in Kenpo - I love kicking, personally. Kenpo is more hard-style and circular blended - from what I've seen, Tae Kwan Do is a little more circular than anything else.

Yet, they both have a lot of similarities as well.

In reality, I think it depends on your instructor, dojo (or dojang, is that right, Triddle?). I would say that between Triddle and I, we could probably compare info and answer your question, though.

Peace;

Parkerlineage

[Triddle]

hey (yes dojang is right, lol) i gotta agree youd have to put alot of study into all of the arts to really get a good answer to this question, but like you said, since i train tkd, and you train kenpo, maybe we can combine info, lol. I don't really know much about 'normal' tkd though, since im not interested in the sport side of it at all, and ive only been training around 5 years so hopefully we can get someone more knowledable than myself to help out, lol. From what ive heard about Kenpo... i reakon the biggest difference would be in the general trend of the arts, in general, kenpo seems to be geared more to practicality, while tkd is, in general more about sport (which saddens me personally, as i think its a great art being spoiled by sport, but then, i suppose its what people want). Someday maybe ill become an instructor and try to keep traditional tkd alive, lol.

Anyway, heres a list of some differences between the sporty tkd and what i understand of kenpo that comes to mind, some of it may be totally wrong though (like i said, i dont know much about kenpo, or 'normal' tkd)

- TKD is geared HEAVILY to kicking, Kenpo is more rounded.

- TKD removes practicality from techniques to get speed, and looks, Kenpo focuses on practicality (i think).

- TKD does point sparring, while kenpo does continous sparring (i think)

- TKD focuses less on state of mind, phycology, values etc (i think)

- Im not sure if you guys do breaking in kenpo? if so, theres another differnece

- Kenpo(ers, not sure what your called, lol) block more (i think)

*remember this is in general, some schools vary alot from these*

Now... the more traditional schools of tkd, bring hands back into the equation, especially with blocking, focus totally on practicality, focuses a fair bit on state of mine stuff...

So, i think traditional tkd and kenpo have alot more in common, aside from obvious things, like different techniques.

Also, about your comment on tkd using circular techniques mainly, im not sure about the sporting styles, but i know in mine we use a blend of both, geared more toward hard, but your probably right about the sporty one using more circular movements, because i know i read somewhere about them changing techniques so that they dont hurt/damage their oppenents, but get delivered quick and look good (which, correct me if im wrong, circular movements tend to do). So, i still say, its all in the school/instructor to how different they really are.

Anyway, im glad u posted, thought i might have scarred everyone off with my massive post look forward to hearing what u have to say. Sorry again for the big post... dont be scared off

[parkerlineage]

- TKD is geared HEAVILY to kicking, Kenpo is more rounded

Agree with you there. Most Kenpo kicks are delivered to chest height (rarely) or lower, with kicks to the head only when the opponent is doubled over.

- TKD removes practicality from techniques to get speed, and looks, Kenpo focuses on practicality

Agreed again. I don't know about the TKD half (but you do, I'm sure), but Kenpo does position speed below power and accuracy, which, in a nutshell, translates to effectiveness. There are instances when speed is more key, but less than TKD.

- TKD focuses less on state of mind, phycology, values etc

There I think we have a similarity. That's one thing I love about Kenpo - there isn't anything spiritual or "focusing your inner one-ness" about it. Physiology, yes. Psychology, no.

- Im not sure if you guys do breaking in kenpo? if so, theres another differnece

Of boards/bricks? No, we don't. Of bones - in our techniques, and only on occasion with our sparring

- Kenpo(ers, not sure what your called, lol) block more

You know, I've always wondered what we were called...Kenpoists?...Kenpoers?...Kenpo-ka?...anyway, yes, I think there is more blocking in Kenpo, from what I've seen in my encounters/fights with TKD people.

Now... the more traditional schools of tkd, bring hands back into the equation, especially with blocking, focus totally on practicality, focuses a fair bit on state of mine stuff...

So, i think traditional tkd and kenpo have alot more in common, aside from obvious things, like different techniques.

I'm willing to bet you're right...it's unfortunate that the art of TKD has been reduced to a McDojo sporty thing in most instances...I met a guy who did traditional TKD at the last tournament I was at (which was at a YMCA-ish TKD dojang), and his stuff looked very similar to mine. Actually, I went up against him for Grand Champion (he won), and it was great competition.

correct me if im wrong, circular movements tend to do

I think you're kind of wrong...but only partially. It depends exactly how you use the circle - most TKD stuff I've seen does use the fast/pretty circle - but a lot of circular Kenpo stuff hurts pretty bad, too...

Sorry again for the big post... dont be scared off

I like it when people have a lot of good information to give. We must continue...

Parkerlineage

[tsdtony]

wel tkd and kenpo have noting in common.TKD for the most part(not all schools just most)is not a selfdefince but more of a contact sport.Kenpo on the other hand is a selfdefince it is bouth a hard and soft styele giving it bout liner and circuler movements.TKD tends to have a lot of looping kicks were kenpo have very few looping kickes.Also kenpo utilize a lot of grapling and joint locks which can be used to brake bones.Also kenp stres using there tecniqes in real life practical situations.As were tkd not all schools but most point spar wich is not practical at all for street self defince.

KARATE on the other hand it depinds on wich form of karate your talking about.Some are soft some are hard some are bouth.If i am not mistaken kenpo is a karate.But lets take kiousikan ts one f the most complet sytems youll find in karate.There extramly hardcore in there sparing methods. wich greatly incres your chance of sucsefully defindeing your self on the street.Tahy also do joint lock and grapling and as far as know do use meditaion.

I could go on and on for houres about tangsood thats the syel i take but it woul;d be a biast opinon because of me takeing it.I do though recomend people cheacing it out youll find it one of the most well rounded and comprehinsev marial arts you find.I recomend any one who want martal arts for self defince to cheack it out i garente you wont be sorry.

[Triddle]

Hey, i dont think i really communicated myself very well about the circlular techniques before, i wasnt trying to say that they dont hurt as much, or are less effective, i was just saying that in the case of the sport style tkd they kinda are, lol, because i think they change techniques that are supposed to linear, to get them more circular, to get more speed, in turn damaging the effectivness of the technique, but making it good for competition (although im not sure where i heard this, but i have heard it on mutliple occasions). But yeah, i do know techniques that are supposed to circular hurt like hell alot of the time, lol. It was interesting to see that kenpo - like TKD (in most cases at least) doesnt focus much on spirituality, i had always thought it did, lol, goes to show how much i know

BTW; i think a kenpo student is called a "Kenpoist" still not entirely sure though, lol.

And tsdtony, no offence, but i think you were kinda blunt in your post... lol, could you please elaborate as to why you think they have "nothing in common"... because it seems to me that they have a fair bit in common... the traditional forms of tkd at least, im not quite sure what you mean by "looping kicks" but if you mean what i think you mean (round, circular type kicks?) then at least in my school, we use much more hard linear kicks. also, i have never point sparred in my life... ever.

Everyone seems to generalise abit too much when it comes to TKD I think, with good enough reason i suppose though, since all people seem to see is the sport, so i kinda agree with you...ish... most tkd schools (sporty ones) and most kenpo schools have little in common, but traditional schools have a fair bit in common it seems. Infact, the only main difference i see is that they dont kick to the head unless the opponenet is doubled over, where we kick to the head even when they are still fighting, but still, not all that much. Anyway try not to generalise what you see at the olympics as being what all TKD is like, although im not knocking the sport, i like to watch it sometimes, its interesting, if a little frustrating to see them only kicking, lol, and often seeing what i see as poor technique, but then, perhaps its just me not understanding the way they do them, lol but they dont look like they would be very practical to me, but then, they are being used for sport, not fighting... maybe my eyes are just getting bad.

So once again, i stick to my guns its all in the school!. Im enjoying this topic, learning abit about kenpo, and maybe, in the process, i'll convince some of the people that hate the sport side of TKD not to look down on the art so much, lol.

[Sam]

wowl oads of long posts one thing though - im keeping mine short....

Not all TKD is point style sparring.... but the overwhelming majority of schools practice this.

Triddle when you say traditional TKD are you talking about ITF, and if so which generation of it?

Also Triddle - good to have you here, nice to have someone else defending TKD with well reasoned points.... not saying my points are well reasoned, just that iattempt to defend tkd from being all lumped into one group.

[parkerlineage]

In resopnse to point sparring, we do in tournaments, but in class...I don't know what you'd call it. Kind of a cross between point and continuous. More like...oh, I don't know, I'll just describe it.

When we are at the advanced rank we are (the majority of the advanced class are high brown and low black belts), we use our judgement as to what is a good shot. Little hits that can be shrugged off are generally disregarded. You fight and keep hitting until somebody scores a hit that leaves you short of breath, or your ears ringing, or something like that...or that would have been devastating in a fight had you not been wearing protective gear.

Of course, it's all subject to who's fighting whom. You fight smaller guys who can take less, more stuff counts. You fight big guys who's legs weigh as much as I do (probably not), you sure as heck better hit them a whole lot, and hard.

I'll leave you guys to classify that.

Peace;

Parkerlineage

[tsdtony]

dont get me rong i dont look down on tkd at all.I dont mean any disrespect to the art with my comment and i dont base the whole art on sport tkd.Thats way i put most schools.now with that out of the way

I dont see any comecton between the two arts .One tkd is korean formd arround 1955.Kenpo is a tradisonal martial arts ben around for centures i belave not really shure on exact date.for one there macanices for troung kicks and punces is completly difrent than in tkd.Also in kenpo thay stess the use of joint locks and selfdefince holds much more than thay do in the tkd schools i have seen.Tkd also belives in the internial and spiritule part of the martial arts kenpo does not.Theys are just a few of the difrences i have seen.

What i mean by looping kickes.Thats very simple a lot of sport oreanted tkd schools i have seen trough there round kicks and cresent kicks in a huge circuler mostion becasue of this you can see the kick coming a mile away.I have tough seen tkd schools teach you hide your kicks but thay was very few.

Once agean i dont mean disrespect to tkd by my post.I fell it is a very butifel art with probly the most athletic marilartis i have ever see.I just fill with all the sport studios out there its very hard to find a tradishonl tkd studio that focuse on manly self defince to were 9 out 10 kenpo schoold do focus on selfdefince