Are you a Thug or a Warrior?!

[Empty Flower]

The traditionalists only have themselves to blame though. By being too rigid and hardheaded they failed to evolve with new developments in fighting concepts and as a result their arts became obsolete.

Many of those who did evolve made the mistake of forgetting their roots, and so although their arts became more effective, they also became shallow.

I imagine its even worse in western countries. The concept of "do" is not part of your culture. Self introspection and spiritual development are often scoffed at. And with the amount of violence around people just wanna know what works in a fight. I guess I cant blame them really.

I personally feel that for an art to be truly effective and truly complete it must be both fighting effective and spiritually focused. Thats what I'll be teaching.

An acute point Drag'n - well said!

although their arts became more effective, they also became shallow.

If you have chosen to taech with the true philosophy, then you deserve only respect for this!

Unfortunately, this is true also. my honest opinion is that this can only change in time, but it will be a small few that begin to lead the way.

Another excellent comment was made by Pineapple:"no amount of training makes you unbeatable unless you are a movie star". You are right a 'perfect' Martial Artist only exists in films. Also remember, a 'perfect' thug only exists in films too! Some one can know all the technical skills under the sun, but without the intuitive guidence from within (spiritual!) they can ultimatly(in life) only loose. Of course we seem to worship the 'Bad Guys' these day in a mistaken belief (again from films) that 'bad' has a power that we can use to improve our lot in life some how. Such a delusion can only lead to failure.

IMHO (like it or leave it!!)

EF

[Sam]

I dont agree that it can only lead to failure.... simply that it is more likely to do so...

[Empty Flower]

I dont agree that it can only lead to failure.... simply that it is more likely to do so...

I must appologies for my poor choice of words. Yes,you are right - it can only make failure more likely!

EF

[Sam]

No need for apologies.... just one has to remember the massive chaotics of self defense and other situatinos.... and there are no certainties...

[elbows_and_knees]

Reading through some of the very interesting posts here I see that quite a few people are worried that the style of MA they are learning will prove to be ineffective in a street fight. I can understand their concern, especially in these very violent times.

However, I would like to make an observation.

When you learn an MA are you not also learning to become a warrior?

I think the Shaolin were referred to as ‘Warrior Monks’?! Another good example were the Samurai. The original practitioners of MA’s not only developed their bodies and martial skills but also their minds and spirits. They learned to meditate and had a good understanding of psychology (including their own!) What seems to be lacking in a lot of MA schools at the present time are these more holistic qualities. Most of the time students are taught a ‘sport’ and not an ‘art’. In fairness to instructors, a lot of students want the MA taught on their terms! They don’t want to learn an ‘art’ just a few flashy moves and how to beat people up!

Spiritual focus is a huge key to becoming a warrior. Without it, are you just a thug? The Samurai did not fear death, neither did the Shaolin.The ancient Celts were formidable warriors – they feared not death and this made them very hard to beat!

But ‘street fighting’ seems to terrify a lot of people. If something has that much control over you that it terrifies you, then how are you going to defeat it? If you are a thug, confronted with some one who is not afraid to die, what power do you have over them?

Just my philosophical ramblings! All of the above is an IMHO and it is offered because I am curious as to what everyone thinks. My opinion on these subjects is not dogmatic!

Empty Flower

A few things here.

1. martial dictates fighting. not all styles have a tie to a religion. Shuai chiao is one of them. it predates shaolin and thus was not tied to any religious beliefs. Some sport styles were tied to religion prior to them becoming a sport - the old muay styles have a huge buddhist influence. Muay thai in thailand still has that influence, but outside of thailand, it's not like that.

2. 95% of us are NOT warriors. That term indicates one who has been in a war. Many people here have never even been in a fight, much less a war. These days, I think the term "warrior" is nostalgic - people like to think that they are training to become one.

3. understanding of psychology is not missing from sport styles. Intimidation is a great factor. Why do you think the stare down is so important? you are trying to break their fighting spirit.

4. I guarantee you, most of the people you run into - trained or not - are afraid to die. However, fear of death really serves me no purpose in a fight. I have never fought in the ring or street with the thought of death - only of finishing the fight. So, who is better off, you - who supposedly isn't afraid of death, or me, who doesn't even think about it?

[elbows_and_knees]

The people you are talking about are looking for a quick fix in a fight. They want to know the secret to beating people up without them (the opponent) standing a chance, either because they are afraid of a real situation or they want to show off and impress other people etc.

In a real situation there are to many variables to come up with a defence that is always gonna work.

What exactly do you base that opinion on? That is a VERY broad generalization...

[Sasori_Te]

I was about to make a post but then I read what elbows-and-knees said. I agree. Just because you train in a martial art doesn't make you a warrior. That's a load of romanticised rubbish.

Martial arts might have once prepared the practitioners to be warriors. Some arts might still include some of the necessary mental and physical components to prepare you for a fight. However being a warrior implies that you know the quickest and most efficient way to destroy (yes, I said destroy) your enemy on a battle field. There is nothing spiritual about being a warrior. You might be a spiritual warrior but you don't need to be one to be the other. I served in the Army in an infantry unit during Desert Storm in 1990-91. I have over 10 years in the military total. I don't know that I'd call myself a warrior. I do know one thing. 20 years worth of doing line drills and kata up and down a dojo floor won't make you one. Neither will competing in a million tournaments.

So if you're not a warrior and you're not a thug where does that leave you? Why can't you just be a person that enjoys training in the martial arts for whatever reason that you like doing it? What's wrong with that?

[Sam]

exactly.... os long as you know honestly what ur getting out of your training i dont think it really matters

[Dragn]

Obviously people have different deffinitions of what a warrior is.

When I refer to a warrior lifestyle I'm speaking of a life of dedication to following a certain path of developing your inner self.This is a common philosophy amoung the traditional Japanese arts which use the term "do".

i.e:karate-do, aikido.......And is also found in many arts and warrior cultures from other countries.

It has less to do with soldiers and wars, more to do with facing life with conviction to do what you know to be right despite whatever obstacles stand before you. Ghandi is a prime example of the warrior mentality I refer to. Few men posess the kind of strength he had. Phisical stregnth is nothing compared to inner strength.

Its more then just mental strategies to beat your opponent. Its a total lifestyle. The battle is fought within. The results are seen without.

To some this may seem extreme, or over romanticised.

But for some of us this is a very real, and very powerful way of living.

Theres a good book by ......Morgan called "living the martial way" which speaks in more detail on this subject.

In the words of Mas Oyama, one of the most feared and respected Karate-ka in history:

"subjecting yourself to rigorous training is more for the sake of forging a resolute spirit that can vanquish the self, than it is for developing a strong body."

"Since Karate exists for cultivating the spirit and training the body, it must be a moral way surpassing mere technique"

[Sasori_Te]

Since we are talking semantics now I thought I'd go and get the text book definition of a warrior.

NOUN:

One who is engaged in or experienced in battle.

One who is engaged aggressively or energetically in an activity, cause, or conflict: neighborhood warriors fighting against developers.

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ETYMOLOGY:

Middle English werreour, from Old North French werreieur, from werreier, to make war, from werre, war ; see war

I read Forrest Morgan's Book. I found it also to be over-romanticized. He was an Air Force Officer. Almost every officer I ever met had some sort of romantic notion about the glory of the struggle in battle. Anyway, as I recall, to be Samurai (since this was also mentioned earlier) meant a life of service to a lord. I don't think this service entitled the Samurai to follow any convictions of what they thought was right or wrong. They, like modern day soldiers, followed the orders they were given. Of course you are entitled to think whatever you like, but in this case I happen to disagree.