Are you a Thug or a Warrior?!

[Empty Flower]

Reading through some of the very interesting posts here I see that quite a few people are worried that the style of MA they are learning will prove to be ineffective in a street fight. I can understand their concern, especially in these very violent times.

However, I would like to make an observation.

When you learn an MA are you not also learning to become a warrior?

I think the Shaolin were referred to as ‘Warrior Monks’?! Another good example were the Samurai. The original practitioners of MA’s not only developed their bodies and martial skills but also their minds and spirits. They learned to meditate and had a good understanding of psychology (including their own!) What seems to be lacking in a lot of MA schools at the present time are these more holistic qualities. Most of the time students are taught a ‘sport’ and not an ‘art’. In fairness to instructors, a lot of students want the MA taught on their terms! They don’t want to learn an ‘art’ just a few flashy moves and how to beat people up!

Spiritual focus is a huge key to becoming a warrior. Without it, are you just a thug? The Samurai did not fear death, neither did the Shaolin.The ancient Celts were formidable warriors – they feared not death and this made them very hard to beat!

But ‘street fighting’ seems to terrify a lot of people. If something has that much control over you that it terrifies you, then how are you going to defeat it? If you are a thug, confronted with some one who is not afraid to die, what power do you have over them?

Just my philosophical ramblings! All of the above is an IMHO and it is offered because I am curious as to what everyone thinks. My opinion on these subjects is not dogmatic!

Empty Flower

[Aodhan]

Reading through some of the very interesting posts here I see that quite a few people are worried that the style of MA they are learning will prove to be ineffective in a street fight. I can understand their concern, especially in these very violent times.

However, I would like to make an observation.

When you learn an MA are you not also learning to become a warrior?

Empty Flower

Yes, anyone that learns an art is learning to fight, hence the word martial. However, there are levels and intricacies to it. Take an overweight 45 y/o, put him through classes where he learns his forms, and does everything well enough to pass, but doesn't practice until they are second nature, doesn't change his lifestyle, etc.

If he gets into a confrontation on the street, I would have doubts about his ability to protect himself, despite his training.

Now take another 45 y/o, who starts training in his art, recognizes the deficiencies and strengths, supplements his training, gets in shape, practices until moves are second nature. He will probably be able to handle his own in a fight.

Both may be the same rank, but one will be able to use it much more effectively.

Also, many people debate about the completeness of an art. Karate, TKD, many of the upright striking arts get knocked because of the saying "All fights go to ground". A grappler or MMA (Mixed martial artist) will many times claim that their art is superior on the street because of that fact.

Arguments and discussions rage ad infinitum about the effectiveness of various arts in different situations, but it all basically boils down to how prepared you are personally.

Aodhan

[pineapple]

Any type of martial arts training IMPROVES your chances on the street but no amount of training makes you unbeatable unless you are a movie star.

The most important opponent to defeat is yourself and you can learn this through martial arts. Once you learn this, you will experience the spiritual side of the arts.

[elliotspirrett]

I would be quite interested to learn some of the more spritual side to martial arts, as I am a huge fan. However, my own style (Trodai Karate) is actually irish and though it takes its ideas from Lau Gar (sp? I trained in it and don't even know how to spell it!) Kung-Fu, it has no religious grounds or even remotely spiritual. Therefore I would quite like to give Aikido a try as I have read this art uses meditation amongst other things to bring control.

Whatever you put into the art you unltimately recieve, so it is the practicioner perogative to gain and learn things.

[UseoForce]

Should you train to be a thug? Of course not.

However, "spiritual" or "ancient" forms of meditation, etc, aren't the only form of mental management.

Do you think a world class UFC fighter goes into the ring without having his mind properly focused?

Do you think an Army Ranger fast-ropes to the ground without being mentally prepared?

Modern "streetfighting" or self-defense programs also have their own mental preparation, so the practitioner need not walk in fear, but rather remain confident. This mental preparation also deals with what happens once the fight actually starts (OODA process, etc.)

I'm NOT saying traditional forms of "mental management" or "spiritual developement" are somehow inferior to the ones I mentioned. In fact, those I mentioned are often influenced by the more traditional methods.

If traditional methods work for you, great (Note my signature). They just aren't for everybody, and that's great too.

[Sam]

i think UseoForce makes a good point.... its easy to get hung up on teh philosophical differences between modern and older approaches.

[Ted T.]

Some of my best friends are intelectual martial arts thugs...

have a good day.

[Sabumnim]

The people you are talking about are looking for a quick fix in a fight. They want to know the secret to beating people up without them (the opponent) standing a chance, either because they are afraid of a real situation or they want to show off and impress other people etc.

In a real situation there are to many variables to come up with a defence that is always gonna work.

[Sam]

oh one point - pineapple - i disagree that any MA training improves your chances.... any good MA training does, but not any MA training - if its not good it likely goes out the window in a SD situation.

[Dragn]

I agree with alot of what empty flower said. Even here in Japan the spiritual aspects of the traditional arts is losing out to sport oriented fighting styles.

Its a shame, because the rewards of training in a warrior lifestyle far surpass mere fighting skills. But kids these days just want a quick fix.

They're just not interested in the deeper aspects. As a result ther are alot more dangerous people walking our streets. Trained in potentially lethal techniques but without wisdom and self discipline. Eager to prove how tough they are . i.e."martial thugs"

The traditionalists only have themselves to blame though. By being too rigid and hardheaded they failed to evolve with new developments in fighting concepts and as a result their arts became obsolete.

Many of those who did evolve made the mistake of forgetting their roots, and so although their arts became more effective, they also became shallow.

I imagine its even worse in western countries. The concept of "do" is not part of your culture. Self introspection and spiritual development are often scoffed at. And with the amount of violence around people just wanna know what works in a fight. I guess I cant blame them really.

I personally feel that for an art to be truly effective and truly complete it must be both fighting effective and spiritually focused. Thats what I'll be teaching.