A man of real combat

[ChangWuJi]

On 2002-03-04 23:23, spinninggumby wrote:

 

I have no intention of spending 2 hours a day trembling with frustration in a horse stance just so I can, um, show others that I can squat for such a long time. Ok i am exaggerating, but I'm just saying that hard training is not a problem, as long as I want what it will give me.

 

What? You don't sit in the horse to show that you can squat for a long time! You do it because it strengthens your body and mind. It strengthens every muscle in the lower half and works alignment in the upper half. It teaches you perseverance, how to hold strong despite the pain, and that's directly related to fighting. If someone is gonna give up after holding a horse for a few minutes what are they gonna do when things get tough in a fight? Quit? How do people train martial arts and not understand the training You know, back in the day the horse stance is the only thing some masters taught for 6 months or more to test a students dedication. That's exactly what's missing today. Dedication. It seems like everybody wants the easy way, everyone thinks they know better than the teacher. Tsk Tsk Tsk. Get your arse in Horse Stance and build that strength. Relying on yer guns and your jkicks in the groin. Are you guys men or little girls? Pfft. If you train for the lowest common denominator, you become the lowest common denominator.

 

As simple as that.

 

 

[spinninggumby]

I understand and am well aware of the importance and significance of the horse stance. However, standing for 2 hours in a horse stance is unnecessary and overkill at best, and detrimental and harmful to the knees and joints at worst. There are much better, more effective and more practical ways to achieve the conditioning benefits of horse stance training than standing in the stance for 2 hours. 'Nuff said.

 

By the way, nothing wrong with being a little girl. :lol: :lol:

 

 

[AnonymousOne]

The horse stance is a very hard stance to master. It poses great training for those that wish to develop themselves IMHO

 

Horse for courses though I guess

 

 

[spinninggumby]

When you say that the horse stance is hard to master, what do you mean by that? That it is hard to learn properly? Or that it is hard to stay in that position for long periods of time. Any technique, stance, block, whatever, gets harder as you either stay or repeat the said technique over and over and over again due to physical exhaustion of your muscles, and is not exclusive to a certain stance such as the horse. I personally do not find the horse stance hard to learn (as most people would not, it is one of the first things you learn, if not the first), but perhaps would find it quite difficult to sit in a horse stance for 2 hours. The horse stance mainly stresses your quadriceps and your adductors, which is why some experts recommend isometric adductor stretching in a horse stance position so as to enable the side splits, but I digress. To me it would seem much more practical to do adductor flies or other exercises which specifically target the quads or the said inner thigh muscles. IMHO it is always wiser to isolate each muscle group and train it separately from the others (at least at first), whether you are stretching the muscle to increase flexibility, isometrically tensing it, or strengthening it thru resistance.

 

The horse stance puts stress on many different muscle groups in the body at one time. This IMHO is not a wise choice if you are working them all at once for a long period of time (i.e. 2 hours). Work each group separately (including stretching and strengthening the ab muscles and lower back and spinal area. Contrary to popular belief, performing the splits is not a very beneficial stretch because it, once again, stretches and works many muscles and joints at the same time. You are much better off isolating each section so that each separate muscle receives maximum benefit and maximum individual attention. The splits is just a showthing, or a stretch to provide as a benchmark for one's impressive flexibility.

 

_________________

 

"Being able to move in and out of styles, movements, and rhythms with ease is the highest skill." - Donnie Yen

 

"If you have to resort to violence, you've already lost" - Rising Sun

 

"The finest steel emerges from the hottest furnace" - a smart guy

 

[ This Message was edited by: spinninggumby on 2002-03-07 02:36 ]

[ChangWuJi]

On 2002-03-07 00:14, spinninggumby wrote:

 

I understand and am well aware of the importance and significance of the horse stance. However, standing for 2 hours in a horse stance is unnecessary and overkill at best, and detrimental and harmful to the knees and joints at worst. There are much better, more effective and more practical ways to achieve the conditioning benefits of horse stance training than standing in the stance for 2 hours. 'Nuff said.

 

By the way, nothing wrong with being a little girl. :lol: :lol:

 

That's hogwash. Why is eveything seen as so harmful these days @_@ One minut egs have way too much cholestorol, the next minute they're saying they're ok. It's all malarky. People are just soft. Im using intense horse training to strengthen my sxrewed up knee and it's working like a charm. Look at those 60 year ol masters using 80 pound kwan Dao and then look at your 60 year old neighbor and tell me who has the screwed up joints.

 

I'll tell youu wahat ruins your joints. Electric toothbrushes and pre fried clam strips!

 

 

[spinninggumby]

I c, u are one of those who will not abandon tradition simply b/c it is tried and proven and it is the 'tough' thing to do. I prefer modern science, which contrary to popular belief does not IMHO clash with religion. So if you want to sit in stance for 2 hours and have your teacher force stretch you that is fine with me, but whatever works for you may not work for me or someone else. The credibility of a man's ideologies and views can only be judged by viewing the degree of happiness, and fulfillment in his life. Mucho BS, no? But still makes mucho sense. Obviously if something is working for you, I would not change the way you think.

 

Different opinions on this board there are. Do not assume that just b/c one is not willing to go through certain aspects of 'hard traditional' training that one does not have any work ethic and prefers the easy way out.

 

As far as I know, my 60 year old neighbor does not participate in any type of physical or mental training (modern or traditional)whatsoever and is a fat lump who enjoys football Sunday, so obviously he could not stand up to those traditional masters. And I do not prefer an electric toothbrush either nor do I enjoy clams.

 

:lol:

 

Refuse to change or adapt, and you just become swept away in the times, forgotten. Nobody ever achieved recognition or was seen as anyone great or inspirational by copying someone else to the letter and reaping the fruits from his/her accomplishments (if fame is what you are looking for). Likewise, change is also vital because we as martial artists have already had to refine or modify many of our drills and self-defense practices due to the invention of gunpowder/firearms. It would be incredibly foolish to assume that we should not aim for new advances.

 

_________________

 

"Being able to move in and out of styles, movements, and rhythms with ease is the highest skill." - Donnie Yen

 

"If you have to resort to violence, you've already lost" - Rising Sun

 

"The finest steel emerges from the hottest furnace" - a smart guy

 

[ This Message was edited by: spinninggumby on 2002-03-07 16:36 ]

 

[ This Message was edited by: spinninggumby on 2002-03-07 16:45 ]

[ChangWuJi]

Everything is eventually watered down to fit the desires of the masses because everyone wants to be included. Everyone wanted to be a blackbelt so MCdojo started popping up by the thousands, everyone wanted to be exotic so Tai Chi pops up everywhere being taught by everyone and their cousin Seefus. You know, kickboxing aerobics as a means to learn self defense. Because it's fun. So yeah, if you think tae bo will give you the same benefits as hardcore martial arts training, more disillusion to you my friend, more of it to ya. It's like if Thai Fighters stopped kicking banana trees just because someone showed them the heavybag. Would it really even be thaiboxing anymore? maybe, but the power would suffer.

 

Of course i won't abandon tradition, because I'm training traditional arts i prefer to train them the traditional way. If I'm training mopdern arts, I train them the modern way. Martial arts aren't a hobby for me man, they're one of the bigger parts of who I am. And believe you me, i know for a fact that what works for me won't work for everyone else. But some things aren't merely 'copying someone', It can also be doing things the way they're meant to be done. I don;t care what your teacher or training tells you. Martial arts aren't easy, and one day the easy way is probably gonna bite you in the ass.

 

 

[spinninggumby]

LOLLOL bite me in the a$$? By golly I think I've pissed off someone No matter what your words say, you display the aura of someone who harbors hostility or contempt towards for all those who do not decide to stick to tradition. Watered down to fit the masses, that's funny. Your world, and my world, was watered down when we discovered indoor plumbing and electricity. What do you think you are using right now? I believe it is a computer. Having a computer makes us among the richest percentile in the world. I find it hard to believe that you (or I) would do well under the harsh conditions that the vast majority of the world faces. As a result of all this 'watering-down to fit the masses', man does not have to work as hard to survive and we have laws to protect our well-being. If you are so inappreciate of these, why don't you go and live by yourself in the mountains and live off of twigs, or perhaps pack up and take an all-expenses paid trip to Beirut or Afghanistan. In the small likelihood that you would fare well there, it would do well to satisfy your ego so you would have the peace of mind that you would be a top candidate for something like the Survivor poster boy or something. Of course martial arts isn't easy. If it was easy I wouldn't want to learn it. That doesn't mean that I am not willing to look for smarter and more effective ways to train. Smarter and more effective does not equal easier, it just means what it obviously insinuates, 'smarter' and more 'effective', as in less risky and less likely to damage your body.

 

Since you agree that what works for you won't work for everybody else, I think it would be time for you to open your hypocritical eyes and stop castrating those around you who do not agree or follow your ways Next to someone who clutches to his ego like a lifeline, nothing is more pathetic than one who is so narrow-minded he cannot stand the fact that even others may do certain things for different reasons (i.e. martial arts? LOL).

 

[ This Message was edited by: spinninggumby on 2002-03-07 18:40 ]

[ramcalgary]

seems like an old arguement traditional arts vs modern

 

 

[spinninggumby]

I am not an advocate of 'modern martial arts' over 'traditional martial arts'. I advocate constant improvement and the willingness to abandon traditional ideas when needed. New and improved ideas just happen to fall into the 'modern' category. There is a big difference.