Why is kumite more important in western karate than kata?

[Muaythaiboxer]

give me a person who only does kata and i will give you a person who cant defende themselves.

if kata where effective in real life all the sport martial artists would spend hours doing kata.

i personally believe kata has its place but it should be far behind sparring bag work and a host of other training methods.

[Jussi Häkkinen]

give me a person who only does kata and i will give you a person who cant defende themselves.

FYI: Training applications and training to apply them freely via sparring are an important part of kata training. "Only doing kata" covers the area from learning the basics and fighting freely. The formal solo kata is only a source. Bag work etc. can also be used in kata training. Karate is kata - kata is karate...and this proverb isn't as narrow as many would think it is. It covers whole karate.

One who doesn't know the applications and who can't apply them freely doesn't really know the kata.

[BLueDevil]

We definately put more emphasis on kata just because our techniques are hidden inside the kata therefore we are practicing technique while we master the forms

[ivette_green]

If you analyse kata and don't just go through it as a series of meaningless movements you will be able to defend yourself. But if you don't know the bunkai, you don't know the kata and if you don't know the kata, you can't defend yourself.

[RaidenTB]

I don't think that anyone can honestly say that the moves and techniques collected in katas can't teach you anything new and useful. One can only choose either to dig in, study the kata and learn how to use the techniques or take the easier route, buy himself a punch bag, sweat tons of sweat, be able to throw one helluwa punch and call himself a "martial artist". No disrespect meant here, but there is a bit more to the martial arts than just plain punching, kicking and building muscle mass. If thats your game, fine. Just don't call it martial arts.

In the west, karate is a sport. In the east it's an art.

Two different mentalities, different cultures, different sets of mind. If you train karate for self defence purpuses or just to be able to fight - then you probably want the results fast. You want to have the feeling that you're able to protect yourself. You won't see anyone sitting and watching classes for a year, before actually starting to learn. You also won't see anyone voluntarily learning a kata solely for that purpuse. Maybe cause learning a kata and mastering it is quite a project to take on. A project that takes a lot of patience and time.

Perhaps the question that should be asked is - why people learn karate in the western and why in the eastern countries. What kind of attitude do they have towards karate and what kind of expectations.

To get back to kumite vs. kata topic I agree with those who say that one cannot go without the other. Katas are encyclopedias of kumite... You just have to take time and study them.

And on the side note: I've noticed that in most cases people that are good in kumite suck in katas. And vice versa. There are of course execeptions. There's a guy in our club, the one you go to when you have questions about katas. He'll beat the living crap out of you in such an elegant, fast and skillful way you won't even know what hit you. Guess where his knowledge comes from?

[Menjo]

give me a person who only does kata and i will give you a person who cant defende themselves.

if kata where effective in real life all the sport martial artists would spend hours doing kata.

i personally believe kata has its place but it should be far behind sparring bag work and a host of other training methods.

Thats why theres kumite, kata hightens kumites ability....

[Son Goku the monkeyking]

i agree that forms are very important because thats how u learn a good portion of ur techniques but i think kumite is better because of the fact that forms are preorganized techniques in sequences, so they are for mostly certain situations. in mi system of kungfu the instructors worked more on neutralizing my opponent then using grappling or takedowns. to beat them. we use mostly forms when sifu wants us to use them during combat to see how we COULD use it. not that we cant use forms in actual fight it's that u got a better chance of using takedowns grappling etc

then u would for forms. i just think that alot of moves in a form would be used more for killing or intense injury wen the situation aross.

PEACE

[Kajukenbopr]

without Kata, there is no material for one to use in kumite. So people should learn the Katas and then practice them in Kumite.

Both are important

[SenseiMike]

well, I know it sounds odd coming from a shotokan guy, but I think kumite wlks hand in hand with kata, if not just a little more important.

Kumite offers the chance to practice kata techniques with a live partner. You never really know what will work for "you" unless you spar, and spar a lot.

Even my beginner classes, tho no free sparring, practice kumite to a degree.

[Monkeymagic]

Some very good and useful responses here. Please keep them coming. All your opinions are valuable about both kata and kumite.