Why is kumite more important in western karate than kata?

[Bleeding Lion]

We only do kata in my dojo, no kumite...I know and think kata is the most important part of karate, but can you let me beat the brains out of someone please?

Just kidding. without kata, you dont learn new techniques, but it would be nice to get a feel of kumite once in a while to try to apply them and get used to the adrenaline rush.

[shoshinkan]

karate is kata, everything else comes from it IMO.

Take your 2 man step sparring drills, flow drills etc etc from the kata principles, analyse the bunkai and apply it with realism and you have karate.

i think kumite is popular due to the development of sport karate, along with 'performing' kata to set criteria for judges.

whilst kata should remain constant technically, personal emotion, rythum and execution is permited, subtle timing differences etc etc. this is why group kata for tournaments is sadly missing the whole point of kata training.

All the pressure point, grappling and tactics are contained within the classical kata IMO. Its just seeing them thats the problem sometimes!

[DennisTheMenace]

Kata is alot of kumite techniques compounded

[Menjo]

Like what pretty much everyone else said most of karate is put into kata. So Kata is more important to me, however kumite is also important just a little less.(too me)

[elbows_and_knees]

karate is kata, everything else comes from it IMO.

Take your 2 man step sparring drills, flow drills etc etc from the kata principles, analyse the bunkai and apply it with realism and you have karate.

i think kumite is popular due to the development of sport karate, along with 'performing' kata to set criteria for judges.

whilst kata should remain constant technically, personal emotion, rythum and execution is permited, subtle timing differences etc etc. this is why group kata for tournaments is sadly missing the whole point of kata training.

All the pressure point, grappling and tactics are contained within the classical kata IMO. Its just seeing them thats the problem sometimes!

seeing them is one problem. Applying them is the other. this is where kumite comes in.

[Monkeymagic]

I think its because the west simply doesn't see the practicality in doing kata's. I think that they find that Kata's are just ways of testing your skills, but if you don't practise those skills against another human, then how will you know what it feels like when you get in the street?

So kumite is more important because it is more valuable on the street, than kata is to the practice of karate?

[elbows_and_knees]

I don't think it should be an issue of importance, period. You should spend equal time on both. However, the issue there is class time... not everyone can fit that into their training schedules, which is where emphasis rears it's ugly head. Still, if you train at least three days a week, I would dedicate at least one to kumite and one to kata.

[shoshinkan]

seeing them is one problem. Applying them is the other. this is where kumite comes in.

Elbows And Kness, you are of course right. And this is where most dojos fail IMO.

You have to apply your kata principles in realistic kumite drills and against realistic street attacks to get karate !

If you dont do these things then your doing something different, not karate as it was and is meant to be trained.

However I do forget that people train for different reasons so my way isnt for everybody, and thats fine to.

i left karate after 12 years hard study to find 'reality' , i trained in thai boxing, judo and wingchun to a basic level, 'realistic' arts IMO. However the penny dropped that it wasnt the arts that were more effective but the application and training.

I have now returned to karate and find everything I need within okinawan shorin ryu................it was always there but my instructors didnt know it, and i didnt find it........................... its fair to say my 'karate' is radically different from my old training days and I research its authenticity all the time.

[DokterVet]

I voted kumite. I'm never gained anything from hidden techniques or secret nuances of katas where I learned.

I feel like I gain more ability from one lesson of bagwork, pad work or sparring than with months of kata.

[ivette_green]

Kata is quite important in our dojo. I would say that it's about 60/40 for kata. My dojo is odd though, it most other kyokushin dojos it sounds more like it's 30/70 for kumite.