Why is kumite more important in western karate than kata?

[Master Jules]

Kata is the most important aspect of the training. You can spar all you want, and yes, you will become a better fighter for sure. But through the study of kata, you will uncover the hidden techniques that make the system you study. By limiting yourself to just sparring, you limit yourself severely to the amount of techniques that you have in your arsenal.....kata will provide a much larger myriad of techniques for you to draw upon during sparring/fighting

[makiwaraman]

Were I train we do a lot more kata than kumite, having said this I enjoy the outwitting and fighting involved in kumite . As for why the westeners put more emphisis on kumite than kata is that westeners seem to do karate as a means for self defence.

regards maki

[Master Jules]

Most westerners tend to go much more kumite because of the history of the journey of karate. Briefly...From China to Okinawa, and then from Okinawa to Japan....the Okinawan understood most of what was being translated from Chinese in terms of all of the hidden techniques which are found throughout the katas of the systems they were studying, as well as many of the subtle nuances of these secrets.....techniques which really were not "gotten" by the Japanese....perfect example of this is the "journey" of Goju Ryu. After Yamaguchi "founded" Japanese Goju Ryu, it was because of his sporadic training with Miyagi that he didnt "get" the whole of Goju Ryu, and the languase barrier which also prevented him from "getting" all of the subtle nuances which are found in Traditional Okinawan Goju....essentially Yamaguchi had to "fill in the blanks", so to speak, and in addition to altering the katas from the original, he also added much more kumite, or free sparring because he never learned the real bunkai applications, or the two man forms which accompany the katas, the practice of which traditionally took the place of kumite. Yamaguchi's top student, Peter Urban, then founded USA/Urban Goju Ryu, and the same pattern follwed.....and so on and so on......Much of the reason westerners practice much more Kumite than originally found in Okinawa or China, and even parts of Japan is because of this pattern. Kyokushin, which is Japanese, and founded by Mas Oyama, was kinda the exception. Although Kyokushin has katas, there really are no "high level" hidden techniques in the bunkai application, as compared to Goju Ryu for example, which is rich with Tuite (pressure point) or Shaolin China Na (seizing and grabbing) . Kyokushin focuses on more full contact sparring, rather than any type of bunkai study, or two man forms accompanying the Kyokushin katas, of which there are none.

Aside from that answer, the real simple plain old truth is that most westerners typically dont have enough patience to stay with an art...a true art....long enough to learn really "high level" techniques.....the attitude is more like....."Yeah yeah..whatever...when do we get to the fighting part of class ????" They can and often do become good fighters, but very few westerners ever really wind up learning any real advanced high level techniques.

I know Im probably gonna get a lot of Flak for that.....so go ahead.....get it off your chest guys.....rip into me....lol

[kenpo_fighter]

it kind of hard to think that kumite is at the forefront here in the U.S. as opposed to kata when there are an immense number of tournaments being held where punching to the body or head is not permitted, sweeps are illegal, throws are banned. i've even been to some, not participated, in tournaments where contact was not even allowed. it was just supposed to look like the technique would've been effective. i'm not saying all american martial artists are that way, but, there are too many "soccer moms & dads" that have more power in the martial arts community than the sensei's in their own dojo. its pathetic and a disgrace to any art. these parents sign their kids up for a martial arts school thinking its a daycare center and the kid is not gonna get bumps or bruises. what a joke. with that being said, i return to my previous statement, it's hard to believe that KUMITE, japanese word for fight, is being favored over kata in the u.s.

[jarrettmeyer]

It seems to me from the poll results that at the moment kata is winning out. So maybe assumptions are just being made?

I think this has to do with the general attitude of the kf.com membership. This site has attracted a collection of anti-McDojo, traditionalist, hard-working martial artists. If a poll specifically targets a certain demographic, the poll will be skewed to reflect that demographic.

We practice kata/bunkai every class. We practice sparring only once every 3 classes (1x/week).

[Master Jules]

I definetely agree with what you are sying in regards to the "daycare" status of many schools, as well as the * you have to deal with as a teacher coming from the "soccer moms"....Its a shame that the American mentality is "Im paying so you work for ME"....Sorry Miss Soccer Mom....not in my dojo !......

The only thing that I disagree with (depending on where you were coming from) is the focus on the study of kata. I do agree that kata is a main focus (or at least should be), but I feel that all to many schools dont focus on the most important aspect of Kata, namely the "true" applications...bunkai, kaisai, and oyo. Literally ANYONE can learn the sequence of any kata, but without the knowledge of the hidden techniques found within the kata, you may as well have a school full of dancers just going through the motions.

[shitokai-student]

has no 1 considered that it is the influence of the world we live in and the day and time we live that influences how we feel about kumite/kata?? all we see on televison and music/chanels/radio is violent and promotes anger and that must have some effect on how we respond, - example , TV series like xena and herculese (although fictional and over exagerated) implant the fight scenes in our subcocious and we act on what we remember, wether we know it or not!! thoughts please! reply to thechosen17@hotmail.com or leave me a msg< cheers BLUE

[shitokai-student]

has no 1 considered that it is the influence of the world we live in and the day and time we live that influences how we feel about kumite/kata?? all we see on televison and music/chanels/radio is violent and promotes anger and that must have some effect on how we respond, - example , TV series like xena and herculese (although fictional and over exagerated) implant the fight scenes in our subcocious and we act on what we remember, wether we know it or not!! thoughts please! reply to thechosen17@hotmail.com or leave me a msg< cheers BLUE

[ShotokanKid]

Depends on what you mean by important. If you are doing karate for the love of doing it, kata. If you are doing it for combative/ self-defense reasons, kumite is. Kata is also important for self defense but you have to be able to understand the bunkai.

[Kieran-Lilith]

In my dojo, I know kata is more important, but in the children's class, even though we are told kata is more important, the general class opinion is "When can we start beating each other's brains out?" In the adult class, it's a lot more civil. Nobody generally wants to try and hurt each other (unless my friends and I are in a fight, in which case I pray it isn't sparring night.) But anyway, we have one night all kata a month, and one night all sparring a month. Sometimes, though, (In the adult class) we'll focus on a kata and it's bunkai all month long. And then we get two sparring nights.