What are the 5 root styles of Karate from Okinawa...?

[Sensei Isshinryu]

Truly interesting forum. I have to add that although we focus on the three systems of Okinawa being Naha-Te, Shuri-Te, Tomari-Te every town and district had a system of there own with all systems having a Te (handing) ending. An example of this would be if you lived in Edison New Jersey I would call it Edison-Te. Another way systems developed was the family name system's. So to focus or to say the original systems of Okinawa it will be a great deal more than the main three.

Just a thought

[ONE TROOF]

-------------------Major Okinawan styles of karate-----------------------------

Shuri Te:

Matsumura Orthodox Sui-Di (Shorin)- Sokon Matsumura's family style, passed from Nabe Matsumura to his nephew Hohan Soken. Based on the principles of Southern Shaolin Chuan Fa, Shihequan (Feeding Crane), Ti and Jigen Ryu Kenjutsu.

Kobayashi Shorin Ryu- Based on principles from Southern Shaolin, Jigen Ryu and Ti. Minor Tomari-Te influence. Itsou Anko's derivative form of Matsumura's teachings. (Founder Anko Itosu)

Shuri Te/Tomari Te:

Shobayashi Shorin Ryu: A mix of orthodox Shuri Te and Tomari Te. Known for its kicking techniques. (Founder Chotoku Kyan, passed on to Eizo Shimabukuro)

Shorinji Ryu: A derivative of Kyan's Shorin. Very similar to the original Shobayashi. (Founder Jyoen Nakazato)

Sukunaihayashi (formerly Seibukan): Also a system which mirrors Kyan's teachings (Tomari Te + Shuri Te). (Founder Zenpo Shimabukuro)

Naha Te:

Ryuei Ryu- A hybrid of Ru Ru Ko's Chuan Fa (Kenpo) and Ti. (founder Kenri Nakaima)

Goju Ryu- An amalgam of techs/kata from Southern Chuan Fa and Okinawan Ti. (Founder Kanryo Higashionna)

Uechi Ryu- A newer style made up of Kinga No'on Chuan Fa (Pangai Noon in the Hogen dialect) and Ti. (Uechi Kanbun- founder)

Others:

Isshin Ryu: A mixture of Tomari Te/Shuri Te and Naha Te, with representative kata from each. Very upright, simple and mobile style. (Founder Tatsuo Shimabukuro)

Shito Ryu- A system based on the principles of Shorin and Goju; most kata of each ryu are included. (Founder Kenwa Mabuni)

Motobu Ryu Udun-Ti: Based upon Ti and Chin-na principles. The style of the royal court as taught to Choyu Motobu (founder) and passed on the Seikichi Uehara (recently passed away).

Kobujutsu and Kobudo are also a part of each school's curriculum, originally taught as a separate art, but now part of the normal make-up of karate training in most Okinawan karate dojo.

[Smitty]

I can't speak for the other styles, but the founder of Goju Ryu was founded by Chojun Miyagi, not Kanryo Higashionna as was said in the previous post.

[Shorin Ryuu]

You are correct. Miyagi Chojun came up with the name and the formal parts of the system while Higaonna Kanryo was the one who taught him a lot of what he knew.

[ONE TROOF]

I can't speak for the other styles, but the founder of Goju Ryu was founded by Chojun Miyagi, not Kanryo Higashionna as was said in the previous post.

My bad Mr. Specific. The techs and strategem were Higashionna's though right? The term Goju was actually a result of a miscommunication between one of Miyagi's students and Japanese officials asking what his art was called, in which he replied "it's a half hard and half soft style". It was a term taken from the Bubishi. Miyagi rarely called what he did Goju Ryu. He would use the terms "Ti/Te" or Tode/Toudi". Want me to school you some more on your styles history? Miyagi didn't name shite, smart alleck.

So you're wrong and I was right because Higashionna's system was inherited and watered down by Miyagi, no matter who offically named it (Dai Nippon Butokukai).

C'mon you have to know more about Okinawan karate other than your own gendai budo history, fool. Reading Is Fundamental. Or do you just know how to utilize Sanchin to give yourself a stroke or an aneurysm? You do know that a lot of Goju training is harmful to your health, right? Critique me with your lack of knowledge some more please.

Offer some real insight, not some lame * nit-picking. Everything I said was a synopsis but on point.

[Smitty]

I can't speak for the other styles, but the founder of Goju Ryu was founded by Chojun Miyagi, not Kanryo Higashionna as was said in the previous post.

My bad Mr. Specific. The techs and strategem were Higashionna's though right? The term Goju was actually a result of a miscommunication between one of Miyagi's students and Japanese officials asking what his art was called, in which he replied "it's a half hard and half soft style". It was a term taken from the Bubishi. Miyagi rarely called what he did Goju Ryu. He would use the terms "Ti/Te" or Tode/Toudi". Want me to school you some more on your styles history? Miyagi didn't name shite, smart alleck.

So you're wrong and I was right because Higashionna's system was inherited and watered down by Miyagi, no matter who offically named it (Dai Nippon Butokukai).

C'mon you have to know more about Okinawan karate other than your own gendai budo history, fool. Reading Is Fundamental. Or do you just know how to utilize Sanchin to give yourself a stroke or an aneurysm? You do know that a lot of Goju training is harmful to your health, right? Critique me with your lack of knowledge some more please.

Offer some real insight, not some lame * nit-picking. Everything I said was a synopsis but on point.

Woooo... somebody's being defensive.

I'm no expert, but so far as I can tell, elements of White Crane were added into the Naha-te, changing the style completely. I'm no expert on Naha-te either, but I've been told it was a straight style, very much into power, completely opposite of crane. Crane is soft and circular. If I'm wrong here, correct me. As for what you said about "Ti/Te" or Tode/Toudi", I was quite aware, thank you. I can read too.

Now, I'm aware that Sanchin performed incorrectly is harmful to your health. Any Goju experts out there, please explain to me "the right way" to perform Sanchin. I'll search on my own as well.

Now, besides Sanchin, please tell me other parts of Goju that are dangerous to my health.

Respectfully yours,

Smitty

[P.A.L]

I can't speak for the other styles, but the founder of Goju Ryu was founded by Chojun Miyagi, not Kanryo Higashionna as was said in the previous post.

My bad Mr. Specific. The techs and strategem were Higashionna's though right? The term Goju was actually a result of a miscommunication between one of Miyagi's students and Japanese officials asking what his art was called, in which he replied "it's a half hard and half soft style". It was a term taken from the Bubishi. Miyagi rarely called what he did Goju Ryu. He would use the terms "Ti/Te" or Tode/Toudi". Want me to school you some more on your styles history? Miyagi didn't name shite, smart alleck.

So you're wrong and I was right because Higashionna's system was inherited and watered down by Miyagi, no matter who offically named it (Dai Nippon Butokukai).

C'mon you have to know more about Okinawan karate other than your own gendai budo history, fool. Reading Is Fundamental. Or do you just know how to utilize Sanchin to give yourself a stroke or an aneurysm? You do know that a lot of Goju training is harmful to your health, right? Critique me with your lack of knowledge some more please.

Offer some real insight, not some lame * nit-picking. Everything I said was a synopsis but on point.

Woooo... somebody's being defensive.

I'm no expert, but so far as I can tell, elements of White Crane were added into the Naha-te, changing the style completely. I'm no expert on Naha-te either, but I've been told it was a straight style, very much into power, completely opposite of crane. Crane is soft and circular. If I'm wrong here, correct me. As for what you said about "Ti/Te" or Tode/Toudi", I was quite aware, thank you. I can read too.

Now, I'm aware that Sanchin performed incorrectly is harmful to your health. Any Goju experts out there, please explain to me "the right way" to perform Sanchin. I'll search on my own as well.

Now, besides Sanchin, please tell me other parts of Goju that are dangerous to my health.

Respectfully yours,

Smitty

Smitty,

Very humble, impressive . Keep it like this.

[ONE TROOF]

Okay Mr. Humble, let me help you out:

"RYU RYU KO and KANRYO HIGAONNA: -The Chinese Roots-

It was the Okinawan Kanryo Higaonna (1853-1915) who through his intensive studies in Fuzhou (Fujian, China) -in the period 1867-1881- laid the foundation of what later would become known as Goju-Ryu karate-do. Kanryo set sail for Fuzhou in the autumn of 1867, when he was 15, with the Ryukyu Kan, an area compromising a microcosm of Okinawan life, as his final destination. Kanpu Tanmei, the manager of his boarding house the Uchinayaru, learned about Kanryo's eagerness to study the Chinese martial arts and introduced him to the Chinese master Ryu Ryu Ko.

There is still no consensus of opinion about Ryu Ryu Ko's exact identity nor about the exact martial art style which he taught. However it is widely believed that the family of Ryu Ryu Ko had originally been of the aristocratic class, and in those times only the aristocratic classes studied the martial arts. Ryu Ryu Ko studied at the southern Shaolin Temple in the mountains of Fujian Province. Due to the internal strife that threatened the feudal system and therefore the Chinese aristocracy, the family was forced to conceal their status in order to survive. For this reason Ryu Ryu Ko worked as a bricklayer and a builder. In later life he lived by making a variety of everyday goods such as baskets, furniture and other items from cane. This was the profession he was following when Kanryo Higaonna became his pupil. In the area Kanryo Higaonna disembarked, White Crane teachers were living and probably Ryu Ryu Ko was one of them. The White Crane (Bai He) genealogy of Fujian goes back to Fang Jiniang, the daughter of Fang Shiyu, who is said to have learned Monk Fist (Luohan Quan) during his stay in the southern Buddhist Fujian Shaolin Temple on the mountain Julianshan (Nine Lotus) near Fuzhou in the Puliang-district. Fang Jiniang, from Yongchun near Fuzhou, had also studied the defence- and attack-movements of the White Crane and became due to this the founder of the first generation White Crane masters. The second generation Yongchun White Crane Boxing grandmaster was Zeng Cishu, who was also a Black Tiger Boxing master.

The White Crane tradition of the17th century Fujian became strongly influenced by Monk Fist and Tiger Boxing, and is probably the foundation on which Ryu Ryu Ko taught Kanryo Higaonna. The original Ancestral (Zong He Quan) or Trembling (Zhan He Quan) Crane style was later split into five main separate branches known as: Singing Crane, Sleeping Crane (Su He Quan), Flying Crane (Fei He Quan), Eating Crane (Shi He Quan) and Shouting Crane (Ming He Quan) and probably numerous sub-branches as well.

However such was the devotion of Kanryo Higaonna that he eventually became Ryu Ryu Ko's uchi-deshi i.e. he received the inner teachings thus learning the whole system, as well as the study of weapons, and traditional Chinese medicine. It is not clear exactly which year Kanryo Higaonna began teaching the martial arts in Okinawa, but it is known that he did not begin teaching until a few years after his return from China. Kanryo first began teaching martial arts in his home in Nishishin-machi, but later taught also at the Naha Kuritsu Shogyo Koto Gakko (Naha Commercial High School) in September 1905. He had many notable students and eventually his most favourite student, Chojun Miyagi, succeeded him as the leading master of Naha-te."

As you can see the roots of chinese chuan'fa that helped to give Goju Ryu its softer elements came originally from Higashionna Kanryo. It's true that Miyagi (as well as Mabuni, Soken, Shinken and others) trained with Gokenki, the tea merchant, in Bai He (White Crane), but these elements were already in Naha Te (as well as various other forms of Southern Chuan'fa).

Miyagi later traveled to fuzhou to pay his respects to his teacher's teacher, Ru Ru Ko, and also took up some Tiger boxing. Hardly a circular or soft form of chuan'fa.

Humility is one thing, not knowing the history of tode and claiming to be an Okinawan karate practitioner is one thing. Before you get froggy and jump on someone know your facts.

The other hard training that is harmful? Too much emphasis on koteate and hard sparring (which is something that Miyagi implemented BTW). There's a reason most of the Goju guys die younger than usual for an Okinawan.

That's it, with much modesty in mind... later.

BTW P.A.L.: Did you attend Lindsey Sensei's May (annual) kata fest. If so who were you and what's your rank? Peace.

Edited July 3, 2005 by ONE TROOF

[P.A.L]

Hi One troof

no i wish i could ,i really wanted to be there ,but we were kind of baned,

[Smitty]

Humility is one thing, not knowing the history of tode and claiming to be an Okinawan karate practitioner is one thing. Before you get froggy and jump on someone know your facts.

The other hard training that is harmful? Too much emphasis on koteate and hard sparring (which is something that Miyagi implemented BTW). There's a reason most of the Goju guys die younger than usual for an Okinawan.

That's it, with much modesty in mind... later.

I don't believe I claimed to be an authority on the history of karate. I said I was no expert, and asked for corrections. By the way, could you please post your source?

Thank you for your respectful correction. I was under the impression that Naha-te was a straight, hard style. I can only go by what I've been told, namely, my Sensei. Maybe he was mistaken, or I was mistaken; I'll double check.

Wouldn't it make sense, though, that Miyagi Sensei would've taken something out he didn't feel useful, or added elements/techniques from the other styles he studied? This made sense to me, which is why I believe that Chojun Miyagi would be more aptly named the "founder" of Goju-Ryu.

Have a nice day,

Smitty

Edit: On a completely unrelated note, I got my yellow... thingy. w00t! Just ignore this part.