Defense against School Scuffles

[ShotokanKid]

In karate, Kumite matches are controlled, stopped every time a point is scored, and stopped if an opponent gives up.

At school, kids shove each other, and if a real fight happens, it is not controlled (duh) and often, multiple people gang up on one person.

I am too worried about getting suspended to get in a fight, but how are you supposed to defend against pushing? I often used perry blocks but many times, there are multiple people pushing me in the middle. I don't hang out with these bullies, but sometimes, they follow me.

What's your suggestions to defend against this?

[jedimc]

Run away and tell a teacher, but if you cant do that then dont do anything you will regret later.

[DKizzle]

The best thing, IMO, to do against a push is to not resist. When pushing, you expect them to resist and push against it, so you work with that assumption. If, being pushed, you just step back farther, they'll get off balance real quick and you can easily take them down.

[JusticeZero]

I get a bit tired with hearing advice to "run and tell a teacher". It doesn't help; iit often comes across as the sort of condescending thing adults might say to make themselves feel virtuous, IMHO, because it doesn't address the core problems.

One phrase I have been told is "All calling the police accomplishes is to place you at the scene of the crime". This would seem to be true in the school environment as well; nonsensical "zero tolerance" policies and the like run rampant. Getting authority involved can help in some situations, but may also make the situation worse in others.

To the bully, pushing people around is fun, and if they are someone who they can push in safety, more the better! If they react amusingly, bonus! This is why I come off as being a psychopath to people posting about problems with bullies - I had a lot of trouble with bullies growing up, and I discovered that the only thing that worked, and worked WELL, was to remove the impression of safety.

The general pattern I experienced was "Start school, get pushed around, picked on - tell the school, get picked on, tell a teacher, get picked on, no change, get harassed because a teacher gave a bully the hairy eyeball but couldn't act, get picked on.. go postal and do my damnedest to put the offending bully out of commission for a few days .... utter peaceful serenity and friendly people surrounding me for the rest of my days at that school... oops, move to a new school, repeat..." all these examples I was not being harassed by ONE bully but several, nonetheless, one incident of violence in public and word gets around where you need it.

And yeah, when being pushed, twist with it and pull them in the direction they were pushed or something similar. RELAX and let them spin off you like pushing a beach ball floating in the water.

[Sam]

Dotn do anything drastic - i partly agree with JusticeZero - just not the postal part

Running off to tell a teacher may not be the best suggestion id depends on your school + your teacher.... and how many there are of them.

Again - just keep away - doesnst work either - people follow each other - thats life.

Eventually you will have to do something to stop them, just be careful its not too extreme....

Oh and a sharp tug followed by a kick to the shins is a good counter for a shove

[ranger1100ky]

Fighting is never a great thing.

That said... if you have honestly done all you could to avoid the fight...

If you have done all you could to 'head the fight off' in advance...(letting school administration know there's a problem, and that if action is NOT taken on their part... YOU may be forced to protect yourself)

And there's still a problem...

To heck with it... when they lay hands on you... put em on their can using the least amount of effort and 'hoo-hah' possible...

Don't make a 'big deal' out of it... they attack by pushing... you 'assist' their push so that basically you encourage them to give the floor a big wet sloppy kiss... and then back off...

If they come again... then make your message of 'I said LEAVE ME ALONE!", a little more insistant...

Remember... a cop always uses the least amount of force possible... and then... ONLY begins to 'ratchet up' the force level used, AS THE NEED TO DO SO, BECOMES BLANTANTLY APPARENT.

So... take a page out of the cop's guide to 'use of force'... KEEP your 'use of force' absolutely REASONABLE, and CONTROLLED...(Meaning you were behaving calmly, with a mind to MINIMIZE the danger to yourself and to others), and ONLY go as far as ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, to prevent injury to yourself, or to others.

Don't let fear of suspension or disciplinary action HINDER your willingness to protect yourself from harm. The bullies APPRECIATE when you DO allow that 'fear of getting into trouble' to stop you from protecting yourself.

Time to stop giving them that 'gift' of a 'free ride to do whatever the heck they want'... but... do so WITH IMPECCABLE AND REASONABLE SELF CONTROL AND DISCIPLINE.

Best wishes,

Paul

[Sam]

thats one things kids forget when their teachers tell them off for a fight they didnt start - i was defending myself - i have a right to do that.... they cant punish you for it.

[TangSooGuy]

Actually, in this day and age, teachers can, and will, punish you for defending yourself. It's ridiculous, but schools no longer care who started the fight...That's what "zero tolerance" is all about.

Unfortunately, it only assists the bullies, because teachers rarely find out about a fight until the one getting picked on fights back or stands his ground.

I used to get picked on as a kid too, and I can say from experience, the ONLY thing that works is standing up to the bully. Sometimes that just means verbally...other times you might have to fight, and to hell with the school.

Bullies thrive on breaking your spirit, and as a martial artist, you can't allow that.

So I agree with using the least amount of force needed to remove the fun factor for them.

Bullying ended for me when I grabbed one of the bullies around his throat and put him up against the wall in the middle of class.

This was many years ago, and the teacher didn't do anything other than ask us whether we wanted to go outside...to which I said, yeah, let's go....the bully was the one who backed off...

It really depends on the situation....are these the kind of guys who will back off at that, or they the kind of guys who are likely to have knives or guns next time? Unfortunately, in today's world, that's something you have to think about, and that's when you need to get police involved...

If it's not going to escalate that far, though, I fully advocate finding the "leader" of the group and taking him to the ground. If you can't put him on the ground, verbally get in his face, push him back, grab his throat, etc... If that doesn't work, hit him, or kick him, and do whatever you have to to get him to back off....

I don't advocate this in most cases, but it sounds like this is a chronic problem, and unfortunately this is the only thing that works.

I hate to say this, but "violence is never the answer" is a big load of crap...sometimes it is the ONLY answer....and when used to defend your spirit, it is perfectly justifiable.

On the flip side, if you want to be PC about it....

Make an appointment with the Principal or Vice Principal...

and explain that bullying is a real problem at the school, and you want to do something about it.

Tell him you want to create peer mediation group that helps to handle bullying and school conflicts...

Basically this is the idea that the students police themselves. In any school, there are usually more kids getting picked on than are actualy doing the bullying.

Peer mediation gives the students the authority to stop conflicts and give punishments such as detentions, recommended expulsion, etc...

Get a core group together, but let the student body know that it is available to everyone. Appeal to the ones being picked on...ask them if they want the power to stop it.

Eventually this grows to the point where instead of standing by uninvolved, the general student body gets involved.

You can find a lot more info by going to google and typing in:

+bullying +"peer mediation" and other variants of those words....

However you decide to handle it, good luck!

Edited June 15, 2005 by TangSooGuy

[ravenzoom]

Pretty good post, I agree with mostly everything you said. The problem is that it's often the case that the older students will bully on the younger, generally weaker students (they know who to pick on), and they're more often than not more than one. I was always bigger and stronger than the average student of my age in school, so I was a good target for older students. Speaking from my experience, I'm sure if I would have tried to defend myself my face would have been smashed in. They like to assert their authority by pushing you into a locker, giving you a punch in the arm, etc. but it rarely goes farther than that. Rarely will a bully just start hammering on you for no reason. He'll just try to show he's 'superior'. So my advice is that if older students bully you a bit, just let them go unless it's too violent. Don't try to fight back or you'll be KO'd quickly by the gang. However, if it's just another guy of your age who simply wants try to dominate the class, defend yourself with no remorse.

[JusticeZero]

Honestly, just because they're "bigger" doesn't mean fighting won't be effective. They want NO risk and NO pain, and even if you are outmatched, you can make them know that they're in a fight - that's enough to get most bullies to stand down and leave you alone in future.