jodan annd tudan

[al karate]

when people say punch tudan people get mixed up with jodan and then they get confused how can this be stopped.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Chuudan means "center" or "halfway" and in this case means "middle area". Jodan refers to an "upraised area" or in this case, "upper area".

I don't know what tudan means.

One thing you may find helpful is to have the students repeat the command after you say it in Japanese and then say its English meaning. A bit repetitive but it sticks in the mind easy that way. More palatable to kids classes, but they are the ones who probably need it more.

Edited June 15, 2005 by Shorin Ryuu

[Chirath]

Chuudan means "center" or "halfway" and in this case means "middle area".

I just thought you made a typo with chuudan. As I thought it was spelt Chudan. But Im guessing it's just a diffrent translation of the kanji

[Jussi Häkkinen]

"Chuudan" is the pronounciation - U is longer (actually 1.5 normal U lengths). Written form may be chudan, chûdan or chuudan.

Avoiding the misunderstandings is actually easy. Using the words of the own language will help tremendously.

[AngelaG]

"Chuudan" is the pronounciation - U is longer (actually 1.5 normal U lengths). Written form may be chudan, chûdan or chuudan.

Avoiding the misunderstandings is actually easy. Using the words of the own language will help tremendously.

Right up until it becomes common practice to mis-interpret the words. For example "uke" being commonly translated as "block", rather than "to receive"

[Jussi Häkkinen]

"Block" works in basic training situation just well enough. They're just words - even in Japanese.

Some old masters refer to every hand technique as "ti" and to every foot technique as "keri".

I mostly believe in showing what to do. "Chudan uke" (middle block/receiving) isn't any specific technique - although it often is one of the 5-10 basic middle "blocks".

[AngelaG]

I disagree. I think block gives out the wrong connotations, and leads to the prevalent misunderstandings there are these days. There are people out there that will actually try some of the so called "blocks" in real self-defence situations. This is foolish and dangerous IMO.

I think if we learn the Japanese terms we can learn the whole meanings from fresh, instead of being stuck with a pre-conceived idea in our heads.

[Kieran-Lilith]

I'm still wondering what tudan is. Considering we seem to have gotten off topic, though...I think just teaching "block" at first is easier for people to understand. Once they reach higher ranks Sensei teaches them what it really means, and a lot more of their training suddenly makes sense. I'm still lower ranking, but have the advantage to getting to know this stuff. Unfortunately, it does get confusing to try and remember "everyday meaning" and "real meaning". What works, works, I guess.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Well, I for one think if someone is of sufficient maturity and trustworthy, the "advanced" interpretations or at least awareness thereof should still be taught relatively early. Obviously you don't want to completely overwhelm a beginner, but you may as well incorporate advanced principles into their training early on. I think adults or those mentally sharp and disciplined enough will be able to do this much sooner in their training than kids, even if they are not in the "higher ranking" category. This is part of another debate, so I digress...

But you are all right about the pronunciation bit. Of course, if I wanted to be even more technically accurate I would've said "joudan" instead of "jodan", but that would've ended up confusing more people. Yes, the adding of the "u" is just an occasional sticking point of mine. (It also can be the source of puns, as my screenname suggests)

As far as "uke" meaning "receive", I've been saying that for years.

[Jussi Häkkinen]

(It also can be the source of puns, as my screenname suggests)

Shaolin firebreather style?

But well, those technique names...they're just names. People should get away from giving them much thoughts. Japanese, English, Finnish...everything works. I find it easiest to use Japanese/Uchinaguchi due the amount I train under foreign instructors (who use Japanese/Uchinaguchi). Still, techniques and principles are the key thing. I try to teach that to my students as well.