Training Methodology

[Sam]

Angela - I think we're disagreeing over what full resistnace is.... im not saying that the partner should resist a move he knows is going ot happen...... that means he would be able to set a base and resist the move based on waht it is.... but on the other side - he shouldnt let the move happen as in just go through with it.... the move should be attempted without the help of the target.

From experience ive seen a lot of techniques been shown and you see them done, and the person being demonstrated helps the other person get the move right if you see what i mean... i.e. a punch going wide on purpose or to a particular side - or just falling down rather than actually getting tripped.

I agree you cant do moves without warning otherwise we'd all be badly injured - just that the target of the demonstration shouldnt just go through with the move..... do you see what i mean?

[AngelaG]

I agree that when people hit they should attempt to strike the target. However there are certain moves when the opponent really needs to go with it or risk serious injuries. A lot of the locks we do are extremely painful if the opponent resists at all. This is not an option to play with when working on the neck etc.

[ninjanurse]

I see everyone's point. But remember that a real fight is unpredictable and you can never train for all scenarios so why not use as many training methods and tools as possible to cover you bases?

As far as "resistance" goes, we learn to counter every technique. So it makes sense to me to train against the counters as you never know who your opponent will be. Judo/JJ randori is a good example. A simple increase in the resistance changes everything and a good partner will allow his resistance to ebb and flow based on his feeling of security, i.e., "Just how hard to I want to fall anyway?" It is beneficial to both partners and allows for both good experience and lessons learned

[Sam]

Just ot point out - people say how can you know a move is effective... well im pretty sure that a knifehand to the throat is effective.... i dont need to try it to no.

The trick is keeping it simple - if i find a move I cannot practice because its "too dangerous" or whatever then i wouldnt use it.... locks, grabs, breaking techniques cna be practiced - you can learn to get the hold on a moving target, -and you cna practice applying the pressure on an inanimate object [working on stronger grip, etc.].....

Even stabbing can be practiced [to take things to the extreme] - you practice trying to hit someone moving with a blunt stick..... and you also practice hitting something less likely to die with a sword as hard as you can.....

All moves I can think of can be practiced in one form or another.... its just a matter of improvisation, and breaking the technique into component parts..

Use what you know works - why complicate things.

[UseoForce]

The trick is keeping it simple - if i find a move I cannot practice because its "too dangerous" or whatever then i wouldnt use it.... locks, grabs, breaking techniques cna be practiced - you can learn to get the hold on a moving target, -and you cna practice applying the pressure on an inanimate object [working on stronger grip, etc.].....

Exactly.

[Adonis]

Physically most people can't train full contact ALL THE TIME body can't take that much punishment for any long lenght amount of time on a consistant bases. Neither is it the best idea. You don't see boxers, kick boxers, or MMA'ers training full contact ALL THE TIME. The body can't handle that much abuse of going full contact all the time. Injury is more likely to happen preveting some one from trianing. So they work on other drills such as speed, hittting a bag, diffrent foot work training or other stuff then just pounding each other as hard as they can all the time.

I do understand what your getting at. If you don't test your moves at all with some sort of resistance, such as your oppenent countering your techniques with some sort of defense, or offering some sort of offense and pushing you to make your moves work. If you don't test the moves then its not as effective as some one else who does test them.

resistance training is the key. Practice to make your moves smooth and feel good to you, have your parenter resist you some, by trying to counter them by defense or counter attack. adjusting for there counter and getting that feeling of a smooth technique again. then have your partner resit you more changing the scenerio.

As well as going full contact at times to deal with full out resistance.

If your partner is just letting you do the moves on them and going with you with out offering hardly any reistance at all. You don't learn how to deal with some who is trying to hurt you and is going to resist you for real. There for limiting your effectiveness in your techique.

[Sam]

A good example of why you cant go full contact all the time is Thai Boxers legs and knee joints.... they're pretty messed up. I agree that there is a limit to the tolerence ofthe body, but that training at higher resistant and contact is beneficial simply for the experience. Not saying its the only way to train by any means

[Adonis]

good point sam, I still would like to train when I get old. Not beat my body up so I can really train at all.

FULL contact should be done as a learing and testing tool. but should not be done all the time.

[UseoForce]

Karate25 said:

Physically most people can't train full contact ALL THE TIME body can't take that much punishment for any long lenght amount of time on a consistant bases. Neither is it the best idea. You don't see boxers, kick boxers, or MMA'ers training full contact ALL THE TIME. The body can't handle that much abuse of going full contact all the time. Injury is more likely to happen preveting some one from trianing. So they work on other drills such as speed, hittting a bag, diffrent foot work training or other stuff then just pounding each other as hard as they can all the time.

Of course, moderation shoukd be practiced, especially with regards to safety.

[Sam]

but the experience of full contact is a necessary part of training....