Technique and application

[FETKD]

Many people put down TKD because of it's flashy techniques and impractical situations. I remember I was visiting a school in NY and I asked the instructor what to do if some one attempts to choke you or grab your collar and he said to drop to the ground and flip him over using your leg, (yes like in the movies) Maybe it's just me but I find that to be a bit ridiculous and impractical.

One thing we have to remember is where did TKD come from? In truth it came from Japanes Karate. Take the original forms for example and I know forms vary from association to association but the "original hyungs" like the Pyung forms, the same thing as the Goju Pinan forms with a few modifications. Na Ba Jin is the same thing as Nehanshi in Goju.

I come from a strong TKD back ground and before I started Goju there was kick block punch, kick block punch, and so on. The first thing my Goju instructor drilled into my head was for every technique there is at least 11 different applications. Why would you step into such a low front stance to deliver a punch, doesn't sound practical does it? Now think about it this way, every step you take could be a kick or a trip, and the same punch motion, think of this, open your hands and grab the hair of an opponent on each side of his head, and do the punching motion, one hand goes out and the other comes in to chamber position, what did you just do to your attacker?

Why did TKD go from such a practical martial art to all the flash? My guess is popularity, people found the flash and the sport more entertaining than the blood and training for real life situations. That and Korea needed something to define it, by then almost everyone had heard about Karate(at least in that part of the world) and Korea wanted something different something to set it apart from all the rest thus Modern Taekwondo was born. The Points, the Judges the flash kicks and hop turn back spinny reverse side hind leg swing axe side kick( I totally made that up) don't get me wrong Taekwondo is one of the best sports on earth and most physically exhausting(next to soccer) but I prefere to consider what I do more than a sport and who I am more than an athlete

So Let's get back to tradition

I do Tae-kwon-do and I'm a martial artist

(Taekwondo is considered the modern spelling and "Tae-kwon-do" is the traditional form of the martial art)

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[SANCHIN31]

I agree with most of what you said. IMO about %75 of TKD schools are mcdojo's.When I was in school I attended one for three years.I didn't know any better and my parents didn't either! TKD has went the route it has because of the public.TKD gives the public what it wants to see,not what is effective and practical.So now you have belt factories with 20yr old 4th dan running them.I'll stick to goju. There are good TKD schools out there,you just have to know how to find them.

p.s. Goju does not have the pinan series kata and is the only Okinawan style that does not include Naihanchi.

[ninjanurse]

There is a lot to be said about both of your posts. There are TKD schools run by 20 year olds--and 40 year olds-- that have only a modern exposure to the art and therefore in a sense teach only one dimensionally. There are also schools run by 20 year olds that follow traditional methods and teach through the layers of technique to produce very good, effective students. This problem is not unique to TKD however, just more noticeable I think because of the sheer numbers of schools in relation to other arts. I have been in "bad" goju schools (very bad, very shallow not only in technique but in thinking too-but that is a whole other story!!), "bad" shotokan schools, and "bad" jujitsu schools. I am just very fortunate to have started my martial arts journey in a very traditional dojo so I have an internal standard which drives me. Not everyone is as fortunate and therefore doesn't know any better when they walk into a school. You are right, there are many good schools out there and you just have to find them...the challenge is recognizing the difference.

[FETKD]

And I too agreet with both of your posts, (thanks for the reply by the way)

It just seems that TKD is always the target of ridicule and more often than not justly so I just wanted to make the point that not ALL TKD is the same.

My Goju instructor teaches the Pinan kata and Naihanchi to me to bridge the gap between TKD and traditional Karate I beleive he said He learned those kata from the Shorin.

[Sauzin]

Uh…so TKD has little or no association with Goju. It goes something like this. Funikoshi who practices Shuri-te (Shorin-ryu) goes to Japan at the summons of the emperor. He creates Shotokan which the emperor orders Japans army to immediately study and assimilate. Japan then conquers Korea and outlaws any kind of tradition, including martial arts and destroys tons of history and legacy then forces Koreans to join Japan’s military. While in the military they learn Shotokan, after returning they take Shotokan and split up into like 7 different fractions. One of which was Tae Kwon Do.

p.s. Goju does not have the pinan series kata and is the only Okinawan style that does not include Naihanchi.

Ueichi-ryu and Ryuryu don't do Naihanchi, and there are at least a couple others as well...

[FETKD]

all forms of Karate come from okinawa-te

as taught by the old masters such as Itosu and Matsumura.

There are four main styles as most know

Shito-Ryu, goju-ryu, Shatokan, and Wado-ryu

These forms of Karate were modified by the founders to fit there needs, Take Shito and Goju for example. Mabuni and Miyagi sensei trained together. Mabuni was considerably bigger than Miyagi and prefered large circular movements and that is why most of the Differences in Shito and Goju.

I never said TKD was directly realted to Goju itself, I said Karate. My Goju instructor is well rounded in many forms of traditional karate and a very knowlegeable man, that is why he teaches these forms because they are infact related to tae-kwon-do

[Aodhan]

And I too agreet with both of your posts, (thanks for the reply by the way)

It just seems that TKD is always the target of ridicule and more often than not justly so I just wanted to make the point that not ALL TKD is the same.

It's because of the truism, "Perception is reality". Most of the time, all the people see of TKD is movies such as "Best of the Best" or the Olympics/Olympic style sparring. Thus, this is what they look for if they go uninformed out looking for a school.

You can also see the same thing in poker (Which I play semi-professionally). People see the WPT and the WSOP on ESPN, and think "Hey, they play those cards and win, I should be able to as well!", and then wonder why they just dropped $300 on the tables. People see something, and think that must be how it all is.

How many people if you ask them about grappling will respond "Oh, isn't that the UFC thing?"

Aodhan

[Sam]

Wow, another lengthy post on sport / tradition tkd...

I alwaysh ave tried to look at them as two completely separate activities....

sport / tradition

The training is completely different for both.

But anything I write now will just be repeating my self [see TKD Effectiveness thread in Korean Martial Arts]

[Sauzin]

all forms of Karate come from okinawa-te

as taught by the old masters such as Itosu and Matsumura.

There are four main styles as most know

Shito-Ryu, goju-ryu, Shatokan, and Wado-ryu

These forms of Karate were modified by the founders to fit there needs, Take Shito and Goju for example. Mabuni and Miyagi sensei trained together. Mabuni was considerably bigger than Miyagi and prefered large circular movements and that is why most of the Differences in Shito and Goju.

I never said TKD was directly realted to Goju itself, I said Karate. My Goju instructor is well rounded in many forms of traditional karate and a very knowlegeable man, that is why he teaches these forms because they are infact related to tae-kwon-do

Okinwan-te...uh...is a somewhat controversial subject. Largely because there's a lot of Okinawans out there that would like you to think that Karate is an Okinawan art and not a Chinese art. And in many ways it is, but to say that all karate is linked by a common art called "Okinawan-te" is a bit of a stretch.

Chojun Miyagi was still a kid practicing in Higonna's back yard at the time Funikoshi was demonstrating and had already moved to Japan. From what I can tell the two founder's never even met. Their teachers may likely have met but they learned from very different sources. Higonna got what he knew straight from China, and Miyagi went back to do the same. Funikoshi's teachers which were Anko Azato and Anko Itosu had completely different sources and styles from Higonna. So what it boils down to is TKD>Shotokan>Funakoshi>Itosu & Azato who may have met Higonna but never trained together. I would hardly call that a relation. Now sure at one point all of this was all in China, but from what I understand they came from different parts of China and different styles so you are likely to reach a dead end there as well.

I don't mean to offend of disrespect you or your instructor. But from a purely factual standpoint Goju and TKD are not very closely related if at all. You would likely have an easier time connecting TKD's lineage to Ninjitsu then Goju.

[FETKD]

Once again I never said directly linked to Goju I said Karate I was using Goju as a reference, and in truth the katas I were talking about come from shorin, it's just my

goju instructor taught them is all.

No offense takin by the way