Some more 6 yr old Black Belts

[Shorin Ryuu]

As far as a 7-year-old being able to hold his own in a street fight, probably not. However, if he has the presence of mind to avoid, or talk his way out of, a street fight, isn't that just as valuble? I do think for a child to be a black belt he has to have the character and fortitude to be able to take a full on shot from his sensei and not cry about it.

Is it just as valuable? Perhaps. But is that the standard we should have when awarding black belt? I personally do not feel it is. Again, it is something valuable but that falls more in the realm of common sense and character rather than fighting ability. Common sense is important, but it doesn't dictate how effective you are at fighting or in learning the combative principles of your system.

Reducing the standard to where a child doesn't cry because he got hit by his sensei is kind of strange in my opinion. A person can cry or not cry all he wants but that has no bearing on the child's fighting ability.

Despite whatever else is added into the mix when using the word "martial arts", it is still first and foremost a combative skill. Certainly all the other factors (common sense, determination, etc.) play into the situational nature of any confrontation. Yet if they can not fight, why give them a black belt? To reward their good attitude? To reward their maturity and common sense? If they truly had those things, they wouldn't "need" it in the first place.

[Sauzin]

I agree completely. Also giving a child a black belt because he has a good attitude and OK but not entirely effective technique then turning around and giving an adult a blackbelt because he has strong technique and a good attitude is a double standard. Even if you break it down to a Jr black belt and a Sr black belt what are you saying? That they aren't the same. And if they aren't the same then what does it mean? That one is real and the other one is "special" somehow. Come on, that's degrading and on some level the kid will know that. I think it is far more ideal to have one standard that everyone in the room can look at and understand. No confusion, no hurt feelings, just a simple scale that accurately reflects where you're at and the time you've spent. If I were a kid I wouldn't want a special rank, I would want the real deal. I would want to know where I am at in the art with relation to where everyone else is, including the adults. After all if ranking can't do that, what's it there for?

[AnonymousOne]

It is inconceivably rediculous to give a 7 yr old child the rank of Shodan.

In most respectable schools there are physical requirements for Shodan, that a kid simply cannot do.

In our school you have to be at least 18 to make Shodan. Its an adult rank not a childs.

[TopGun]

I feel that there are exceptional children that do move through the belts faster but it is hard to believe that 6 and 7 year olds can truely be black belts at the same level which is expected of an adult. I help to teach the childrens classes at my school and most 6 and 7 year olds must be taught the same technique many many times before even grasping the basic hand movements and contact points for their strikes let alone the stance changes and positional checks that the technique contains. I say throw them through the ranks but wait a bit on the black, I think even the Jr. Black belt is ok just not a full black belt. As exceptional as they are I havn't met a 6 and or 7 year old let alone a 12 or 13 year old that could take any of the adult black belts.

just my 2 cents....

[Eruonen]

Some more info: their black belt test was 90 minutes and they are going to start leading other kid classes...so says the article. They may know all of their katas (how well I question)...but I have a sneaking suspicion the dojo operator may have a more commercial reason for the publicity. My Sensei just shook his head and said he would put his green belt kids up against them...because they really know their stuff...have earned it. He also indicated that you rarely see these kids in tournaments or if you do they do not perform well. They simply are not proficient in the basics. The same holds true for adults....claims of high black belt degrees from some kid who is 16. Many do not perform at the level you would expect. My Sensei said he has been involved in Shotokan for 25 years and is a 4th degree black belt. He is quite active and is the coach of the U.S. Karate Team...so I suspect "grade" inflation is quite common...young or old. I understand each style has different advancement time expectations.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I'm not going to defend a 6 or 7-year-old black belt, but what about a black belt who is 12 or 13. Some kid that age have the tools to last if they get into it with an adult. When I say cry, I'm not saying literally crying necessarily, but complaining and whining. Fighting is not the only attribute a black belt must have. The ability to fight is just one of the attributes a black belt must have. You have to look at character and heart as well. What if you run into an 11-year-old kid who can withstand the rigors of an entire adult black belt test? I had to. I started when I was about 5 or 6. I had to go through all the bunkai, applications, written, oral, and physical tests an adult would have to for my black belt. Sometimes a kid comes along that can do it. I know a majority can't, but don't discredit every single person under the age of 16 that has a black belt around their waist.

[Eruonen]

isshinryu5toforever

In regard to teenagers...I fully agree they have the skills and mental ability to be black belts...but to have really earned 2nd, 3rd and 4th degree status by the time you are 16 says alot about the style/school..IMO. I know there are the rare exceptions to the rule...but there are too many multiple degreed black belts at what seems to be ever younger and younger ages. I guess years of experience may not be the rule anymore in many cases.

[kenpo_fighter]

I have heard of people's Black Belt tests that are like 5 hours of grueling work.

People have BB tests less than 5 hours? My first degree test was about 9 hours long, most of it outside, in Texas, in August.

I know that some styles don't do that for testing, and while mine was particularly rough, it just goes to show the absurdity of 6-year-old black belts.

yeah, my shodan test started at 8:00 am and didn't finish until about 5:00 p.m. we did every thing from katas to kumite to board breaking and of course all the official formalities in between.

i second the notion that a black belt younger than even pre-adolescence is quite absurd. not to mention, it's a slap in the face to those who were of superior strength, mind, & maturity and still failed.....3 times. it took me 3 tests for shodan to actually pass. i was almost 14 when i became shodan.

i believe there should be not only knowledge of the material & knowledge of applying technique (kumite), but there should also be a level of maturity when doning a black belt. a shodan should be something you become, not something you acquire.

[SANCHIN31]

The same people giving children blackbelts wonder why martial arts has lost respect. Keep the standard,16yrs old minimum.

[Eruonen]

See link for story:

My intention is not to pick/criticise the people or the school, however some observations:

http://www.nwherald.com/CommunitySection/341451638266222.php

Though it is called "Karate" they actually teach Tae Kwon Do with some type of "karate" mixed in...another article:

http://www.inde-news.com/articles.cfm?ArticleID=080404210801

Claims no competition (other than in school) until a "higher" black belt is achieved (???) which is odd and IMO reflects poorly.

I know at one time "Karate" was used as a generic term for many MAs but I surprised they still use it in all of their ads etc.