Some more 6 yr old Black Belts

[Eruonen]

My local paper had an article on two kids...one 6 the other 7...who supposedly became black belts. The article indicated "Karate" but no style was indicated and the black gi's and attempted board breaking photo looked more like TKD. Regardless of the style....I cannot understand how a legit dojo could claim these kids have mastered the martial art. I know this is fairly widespread and in my opinion reflects poorly on the public perception of martial arts. General readers will either believe the status and have false expectations for their kids or they will consider it unlikely and a sham.

I could be wrong...they may be Wunderkids.

[Ryokeen]

They didn't master the art. They have mastered the basics, how ever I don't really know how a 6 or 7 year old could fully understand the meaning of a black belt, however it is possible.

I personally beleive it takes years to become a blackbelt, atleast 5, and many many more years to become good.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

They didn't master the art. They have mastered the basics, how ever I don't really know how a 6 or 7 year old could fully understand the meaning of a black belt, however it is possible.

I personally beleive it takes years to become a blackbelt, atleast 5, and many many more years to become good.

Maybe they started training while in the womb? This topic has been discussed several times before on this forum, but I agree with Eruonen in that I don't think a young child has the maturity or skill to be wearing a black belt in the way that I believe a black belt represents.

[ncole_91]

Do you not need an amount of strength to become a Black Belt. I have heard of people's Black Belt tests that are like 5 hours of grueling work. You would have to spar other BB and their instructor, and their instructor was not taking it easy, they were going full out. I don't think a 7 year old could actually do this. Also, I don't think a 7 year old could understand the basics, it is one thing to just learn the moves, but they should now a whole bunch of applications for each strike, block or punch. Also, I think that you should have enough experience that you should be able to teach, and I personally do not think a 7 year old could teach a class properly. I don’t know if I am way off, but when I become a Black Belt, I want to earn it, and have to do and know all the things that I mentioned.

[ninjanurse]

I have mixed feelings here. At least in some of the styles I have studied, you do not gain full black belt status until you reach the age of 16, regardless of how many years you have been training, therefore a 7 year old with a Black Belt is akin to any other high ranking kyu/gup...and that means 9 more years of training before they attain their rank. Should they not be allowed to learn beyond 1st kyu/gup in those 9 years....or should they be allowed to progress and learn until their 16th birthday? Take Ernie Reyes Jr. for example, at 8 years old he was dominating his age group and beating adults on a national level...and while he wore a Black Belt around his waist, he was considered a Jr. Black Belt (within his system) until he turned 16 years of age. What if he had never been allowed train past 1st gup? I realize that he was an exceptionally talented kid but should we place a double standard on our Juniors and only support those that are doing well or should we encourage them to continue learning and growing regardless of the color belt they wear?

Character and responsibility do come with age but even some adults haven't quite grasped the concepts either (we all have them in our dojo don't we?) and somehow they are running around with Black Belts...and some of them are even teaching out there. Where do we draw the line? I don't think it is as simple as putting an age limit on it, and I agree that your average 7 year old doesn't have the physical maturity to hold his own in a street fight...but is that really what karate-do is all about?

[Grenadier]

I certainly agree, that the overwhelming majority of younglings are physically and / or (more likely and) mentally developed enough, to get their shodan ranks. I am leery about letting those who aren't even 12, test for shodan, simply because the odds aren't in their favor, and also because one needs to be mature enough to handle it.

On the flip side of the coin, though, I will gladly acknowledge that there will be the rare exceptions, and that holding back such younglings who have demonstrated that they possess the physical and mental requirements (and can perform well) would not necessarily be a good use of their time.

If a gifted child the likes of Ernie Reyes Jr. can show that he understands the basics, and can perform to the acceptable standard as one would expect out of a shodan, then I wouldn't have any qualms about promoting such an outstanding individual to shodan (or beyond). Again, though, such individuals are rare, indeed, and I would feel blessed, indeed, to have one as a student.

On another note, as for certain black belts becoming full fledged instructors, though, that's where I would have to draw the line. I wouldn't allow a youngling to be in charge of a class, no matter what rank he held. I would gladly let him work as an assistant, helping out the instructors, and being a shining example of what a student should be, though.

[octopic]

I have heard of people's Black Belt tests that are like 5 hours of grueling work.

People have BB tests less than 5 hours? My first degree test was about 9 hours long, most of it outside, in Texas, in August.

I know that some styles don't do that for testing, and while mine was particularly rough, it just goes to show the absurdity of 6-year-old black belts.

[Shorin Ryuu]

I'm not going to try and turn this into a "My black belt test can beat up your black belt test." I personally think tests add too much artificiality in the first place (as do ranks...but I think those at least serve a purpose within an organization).

To be honest, I honestly don't care what other styles have as their age limits for black belts. Just as an observer, however, I think it is dangerous to give some kid a black belt just to "keep them interested".

I don't think it is as simple as putting an age limit on it, and I agree that your average 7 year old doesn't have the physical maturity to hold his own in a street fight...but is that really what karate-do is all about?

In my book, that is what karate is all about. Yes, there are certain matters of character and ethics we wish to instill in our children. However, in the overall picture, martial arts is about combative training. If the child in question knows the black belt has no bearing on their fighting ability then it is fine. Unfortunately, as they grow older they may be deluded into thinking that black belt they gained years ago made them a great fighter. It very well may be that they became great fighters; but if combative ability was not the main focus of training (evidenced by giving black belts at a low age), then the chances of that happening are less.

Once again, don't misunderstand what I am saying. I am not stating that spiritual and character development has no place in martial arts. There is more to karate than purely gaining fighting ability although that is my main goal. By the same token, giving black belts to small children merely because they have shorter attention spans and supposedly "need" all this external reaffirmation of their achievements does NOT teach these kids the lessons and extra benefits which karate has to offer.

To put my answer in context, I am not an instructor. I do not have to worry about paying bills and keeping students and families happy. However, I think it is possible to do those things without resorting to mass-producing black belt children who could not stand up to a grown man in a fight.

[Sauzin]

Using black belts (or any belts for that matter) as a means of maintaining interest is something I truly hope I will never have to do. This is why I fear starting a commercial dojo, and probably never will. I don't want to work with people who don't want to be there. This includes kids. I come from a family of 6 kids and I'm the oldest. I have had my fill of babysitting kids that aren't mine for my lifetime. The people I want to work with are the people (kids or adults) that don't need a piece of cloth to feel the benefits and accomplishments they receive in karate. As far as giving a 8 year old a black belt, I don't believe in lowering the standard just because of age. Because of this I doubt it would be possible for someone under 16, usually 18 to meet the requirements. I see no reason to have double standards in any dojo. In my mind it kind of defeats the purpose of ranking.

[isshinryu5toforever]

As far as a 7-year-old being able to hold his own in a street fight, probably not. However, if he has the presence of mind to avoid, or talk his way out of, a street fight, isn't that just as valuble? I do think for a child to be a black belt he has to have the character and fortitude to be able to take a full on shot from his sensei and not cry about it. I have no problem with kids that get kicked accross the room, get up, shake it off, look at you, and go back at it. I have a problem with the kid who puts his mouthguard in, it doesn't fit right, and he cries. Those shouldn't be black belts. We can't make broad generalizations about black belts under the age of 16, I was one, but I know whever everyone is coming from. And as far as long tests go, I don't think the length of a belt test is the measure of a black belt. I have encountered people in the same style as me who have had 24 hour tests, while my test was considerable shorter sliding in somewhere around 7 hours. I have seen black belt tests last just long enough to get through the necessary stuff, 3-4 hours sometimes less. You can't judge the skill of a black belt on how long his test lasts.