Choy Lay Fut discussion

[Infrazael]

If there are any CLF practitioners, it would be great to have a discussion thread about our style.

Or if anyone has questions about CLF I will be happy to answer as best as I can.

[stonecrusher69]

HI..I don't study C.L .F but maybe you could answer some general questions about your style.I Know C.L.F is a vast sysytem that has many forms,and I don't think anyone could learn them all.How many forms does a student have to learn as a minium to get the essence of the system or teach.In my system we have only4 forms so its easy for everyone to learn them all but of course hard to master.Do you also have any training that envolves sensitivity devolpment?Is Sparring common training in C.L.F and how long does it take before a student starts sparring?Is C.L.F now-a -days geared more twords self defense(traditional training)or more for competion?(point fighting).I have some pictures of C.L.F sifus in mags showing sparring application but the technics he was performing looked very generic not like C.L.F. is there a difference between sparring technics and traditional application?

[Goju_boi]

i dont do clf either but i did have questions on the comparative forum section about how it compares to wing chun , northern shaolin,and of course clf

[AndyK]

Nice to find other CLF practitioners.

I just started CLF several months ago.

Hold Nidan in Kempo.

CLF really different. Wanted the challenge of learning in new ways.

[Infrazael]

Good questions. Remember, I will try to speak for CLF as a whole, but that is sometimes very hard. Every Sifu and student will have his own flair, and different lineages of CLF can look completely distinct.

First, onto forms. If you ask me, 3-4 forms (core ones) is good enough for you to become a pretty damn hardcore fighter. Virtually every application in CLF forms are combinations of some sort, meant for crushing your opponents. Buk Sing (1 of 3 branches) has 3+- forms, a couple of dummy forms, and some weapons. Hung-Sing and Chan have alot more, but really, nobody practices that much. I personally only focus on 3-4. Oh yeah, 3-4 core forms, plus 1-2 dummy forms to make you hardcore as hell. Unlike Wing Chun, we beat the living hell out of the dummy (and ourselves) using maximum force, as opposed to sensivity training. The CLF dummies also look quite different from the WC ones.

As for sensivity training. . . . not really. CLF doesn't realy on that much sensitivity. What we do rely on though is lots of depth perception, distancing, and positioning. Bridges can be established, but be warned that a CLF player can smash you without bridging at all, or use a combination or bridge and non-bridge. Distancing is extremely important due to the longfist attacks we have, and knowing which part of the arm deals the most damage, to which type of attack for which distance, pisition, and time (we have 5+ swing attacks using the entire area from the knuckles to the entirety of the forearms. CLF attacks, even bridges, do not require the sensitivity of Mantis or WC. Instead, all of CLF attacks are meant to break through a gate by raw force, instead of going around or trapping it. Attacks are meant to be 100% power oriented, and usually 1 blow is enough to take out an opponent.

Sparring is extremely important to Choy Lay Fut. Beginners usually start sparring about 1 to 2 months into the system, after learning about 2-3 forms (we have very short basic forms, while other schools may start out people doing trad. long, complex forms, which will generally take the same amount of time as 3-4 basic forms). Other schools, so I've heard, have made student wait 1-2 years or reach a certain "sash" level before sparring, something that I am ADAMANTLY AGAINST. I feel that sparring should be done at a level equivalent to Muay Thai, Bando, Kyokushin, which fortunately is true for my Kwoon. I would pit our top tuys against a Thai boxer anyday. Sparring is always full-contact (unless agreed otherwise by the sissies).

I'm not sure what you mean by "traditional" and "competition." Choy Lay Fut has lethal techniques, but those can be used in the ring as well. Attacks such as the Sao Choy (overhead swinging punch), Gwa Choy (overhead backfist), Chop Choy (stabbing punch) can all be done with gloves, and will still be extremely painful in a ringfight. The only things that can't be done are eye gouges, biting (which I prefer), groin shots, and leopard fists and other animal hand shapes (except for the pantherfist and elephant movements, which I love, I don't like any other animal style we have). CLF always have full-contact tournaments and meets. We have lots of ringfights, but we know how to fight brutal, relentless, and cruelly as well. Just because we can't punch someone in the throat with a pantherfist in a ring, doesn't mean we dont' know how, or don't train how.

Sparring techniques are everything we know, at a slightly less lethal level. Sao Choys and Gwa Choys are used at 100%, since they are mostly only going to KO you for a while. However, we usually don't pantherfist someone in the throat.

i dont do clf either but i did have questions on the comparative forum section about how it compares to wing chun , northern shaolin,and of course clf

Well, it's quite in its own category (CLF). First of all, you have to know that CLF is a blending of both Northern and Southern styles. Chan Heung, who first made "CLF" learned from his uncle and master I believe (don't quite remember Chan's story), learned 2-3 styles and integrated them. Later on, Chan Heung taught his skills to Hung-Sing Jeong (founder of Hung-Sing CLF), who eventually had to flee persecution. Hung-Sing ended up training with the "Green Grass Monk," and eventually he went back to see Chan Heung. Chan Heung was very pleased by Hung-Sing's new skills, and they exchanged information and sort of combined styles again (with GGM's stuff, taught to Hung-Sing). This was the "true" Choy Lay Fut as I see it. However, the Chan Family and Hung-Sing will still have differences among them, and that is probably due to both respective founder's personal flairs, and their students' preferences.

Wing Chun -- Choy Lay Fut and Wing Chun are traditional enemies, whose enmity arose during the kung fu days in Hong Kong and the general Gwon Dong area. Anyways, the reason they despised each other so much was because of the antithesis in terms of fighting, applications, and theory. While Wing Chun is short, linear, snappy and triangular, Choy Lay Fut is wide, arcing, circular, and power-oriented. This difference led each style to think the other was ineffective (which is of course, a lie and misconception). I can describe the theoritical differences later if you want me to, but that's basically a summary.

[stonecrusher69]

very interesting...I don't think WC and CLF are very similiar.I think your style is closer to the Hung Ga style.In CLF to you put a lot of empthisis on the horse and rooting like Hung style?and how do you feel about traditaional weapons training do you feel it is still valid in a modern socieity?

[Infrazael]

CLF and HG are very similar indeed. It is a common saying that Hung Gar is the head of a dragon, while CLF is the tale. I believe Chan Heung's uncle, one of his Sifus, was the one who taught him Hung Gar. Thus, why we're so alike!!!

However, differences are notable as well. Hung Gar utilizes iron bridges, iron stances, and iron, hard strikes. They do not utilize northern footwork.

CLF and HG shares virtually the same 5 animals and 5 elements (we just never talk about it), but their power generation is virtually opposite.

Hung Gar relies on "gum jing" which is "metal energy." They use "gong yiu" or iron hard waist and power to destroy their opponents. They also emphasize on bridging. Hung Gar does have a soft side, but that is concealed within their hardness. The waist is usually locked so that the whole body will follow behind the blow by way of connection with the stancework. CLF on the other hand has a more flexible waist in order to develop the proper whipping power for strikes.

I have heard that Hung Sing CLF's use of the waist is more in line with Hung Kuen's, so their expression is a little more stiff when compared to that of either Chan family CLF or Buk Sing CLF. However, I will need to see that first hand, ESPECIALLY since our branch of Hung Sing is supposedly to be more similar to the Chan Family CLF.

Peace.

[Goju_boi]

Infrazael can u put your last post in more simple terms please,and also how does clf compare to northern shaolin?Oh and one more thing is there a difference between choy lee fut and choy lay fut?

[Infrazael]

I've put the last post in as simple terms as I can get. CMA has very different terminology as can be extremely hard to understand, especially by someone from a Karate background.

Choy Lay Fut and Choy Lee Fut are the same. Different spelling. Same with Tsai Li Fo, Choy Li Fut, etc.

[stonecrusher69]

great information about the differences of CLF and Hung ga..it sounds like you have studied Hung style also.In your school do you train some of the iron arts like Iron Plam etc.