DIM MAK

[AngelaG]

Of course, but too many people have visions of people that use PPS trying to poke a small spot with the tip of their finger. This is, of course, ridiculous.

Train to hit hard and hit well. Use PPs as the icing on the cake

[Traditional-Fist]

Of course, but too many people have visions of people that use PPS trying to poke a small spot with the tip of their finger. This is, of course, ridiculous.

Train to hit hard and hit well. Use PPs as the icing on the cake

That is good general advice. However, in higher level kungfu training is in styles such as Wing Chun what one learns is to hit the pressure points with the fingertips...not easy of course but that is how it works in many kung fu styles. Many people do not experience these levels, because either they are in the wrong schools or they do not stick to their MA long enough. Also, traditionally these skills are not taught to everyone in a given kung fu school.

Of course before one gets to these higher levels of training one should consider hitting the vital areas with as much power and accuracy as possible.

[AngelaG]

I disagree. Poking PPs with your fingers is fine for demonstration purposes, against a willing uke, or once you have already locked them up digging fingers in to create a little bit of pliability... however IMO it would be reckless to start using fingers like that in a real striking fight scenario.

If you know what you are doing you can train to become less susceptible to pressure points, and some points don't work on some people, but with a hard strike a person is going down either way.

Just my humble opinion

[MMACHAMP]

Did everyone just completely ignore my opinion....if its so affective why not use it in vale tudo no rules fighting to test it against other styles. In a real fight situation...i doubt you will have time to do dim mak or whatever.

[fallen_milkman]

Would they have time to use it in a fight? Of course. Dim mak is an advanced form of qin na (or chin na in romanized chinese). This means they will know over a hundred ways to bend you into an immovable position before striking the right chi channels and cavities. It is just a matter of getting the opponent into that position. Easier said than done, but a gong fu master who knows qin na will be quite good at this anyways.

[AngelaG]

I know people that do use it in BJJ, boxing etc. Also the proverbial "glass jaw", could this not just be a KO from a hit to ST4 or ST5?

[Traditional-Fist]

I disagree. Poking PPs with your fingers is fine for demonstration purposes, against a willing uke, or once you have already locked them up digging fingers in to create a little bit of pliability... however IMO it would be reckless to start using fingers like that in a real striking fight scenario.

If you know what you are doing you can train to become less susceptible to pressure points, and some points don't work on some people, but with a hard strike a person is going down either way.

Just my humble opinion

I understand what you are saying. However, in the advanced levels of Wing Chun one trains to hit those spots and studies the points extensively. All the factors mentioned in my previous post regarding the HOWS and WHENS are also studied in detail. This will include a detailed study of relevant human anatomy as understood by chinese medicine.

This is done in the Biu Jee level, that is if the sifu decides to teach one the details. Most students will get to learn the more external side of Biu Jee(Thrusting Fingers) and only a few will be taught the Dimmak aspects.

[AngelaG]

Because of the way I train I know where the points are and what they do; I study 5 element theory and how I can hit the points in certain orders and certain ways to generate better effects but because of my sex and size I personally would not choose to use my fingers to activate my point (other than in a training session), unless I was already holding them in a restraint position - or if I was locked up and needed to use a point to get them away from me to give me space to strike.

[Traditional-Fist]

They teach you the 5 element theory in Shotokan? That is great.

Do you also train a relaxed or "internal" type of Shotokan, perhaps something more similar to Shotokai where the techniques are applied in a more relaxed and flowing manner than they are in most shotokan dojos that I have seen.

Pressure point techniques come into their own when applied using internal concepts of energy rather than just hitting a point as hard as one can.

Generally speaking the size and sex of the exponent becomes less relevant as a given style becomes more internal.

I will check out your site to find out more.

[AngelaG]

I would say that it is probably more relaxed on the whole. It is definitely more circular and we try to get rid of all out tension - apart from when using it to prevent lock out of joints when punching air etc.

Have you ever tried the fire walk? I have done some of this and then hit pads etc. I was well impressed with the affect.

I am also playing with other concepts such as hitting with the tip of my tongue to the roof of my mouth to join up the energy flow, and colour visualisation. All really interesting stuff! I also want to spend soem time on using energetics to "block" pain on my side, and to create extra pain for my opponent (with as little effort from me as possible!)

I did once KO someone with an extremely light tap to ST4, after tapping the GB/LI crossing. I'm not sure who was more embarrassed - him or me!