What do you think is the most important kata to learn?

[Shorin Ryuu]

Say Nintai, where are you from and who is your instructor (or are you an instructor...one can never be too careful)? I'm in Monterey, California but I train in San Francisco under Sam Ahtye. It's always nice to see other Shorinkan people online.

If my memory serves me it was Itosu that developed the Heians for the school system, hence the term "school boy karate".

I belive he took pieces of other kata, Kusanku, Passai etc. and broke them dowm into simpler combinations so that it was easier to learn.

Quite right. It was Itosu who developed them for the school systems. I too once thought they were a mix of Kusanku and Passai kata (they most certainly look it), but they are most likely descended from the Channan kata. According to John Sells, Itosu told Motobu Choki in a conversation that the Pinan kata were indeed derived from the Channan kata (he derived the 5th completely on his own) but he renamed them the Pinan no kata. (This conversation was published as early as 1934, at least)

I would kind of object to it being "recently discovered" that the Pinan kata were rooted in older kata. It was never really "lost" or even a "secret".

Back on topic...

I know a few people that believe the Naihanchi kata contain everything. Motobu Choki was probably one of the most famous people to have advocated this, and he certainly had a right to. He once performed Naihanchi in front of the karate-great Chibana Chosin. Upon completion, Chibana announced Motobu was truly a master of karate simply by seeing his expertise.

I must echo the comments of those who say there is no one ultimate kata. However, there are quite a few that if you just mastered one of them, you will be a master of self-defense. I feel Naihanchi is one of those kata.

I think the Naihanchi kata were perhaps derived from a single kata. If so, it would have been longer past into history at such a stage. At any rate, it is traditionally accepted that Bushi Matsumura passed down the first two (I think probably from an older version) while his student Itosu (yes, he made many kata) created Naihanchi Sandan.

Edited May 13, 2005 by Shorin Ryuu

[AnonymousOne]

I would agree that the Tekki/Naihanchi Kata are great Kata, but I would not say they are all encompassing. There are many techbiques that are not taught in these Katas.

I spent over 10 years training in these 3 Kata alone and I am somewhat defensive of those that dismiss them as not worthwhile training with. With that said, I would also say that in analysing the biomechanics of movement in actual fighting, there are other needs as well.

I particularly like that way the hand movements and co-ordination develops practising these Kata and I sure like the message of side stepping it teach's.

High repetition of these Katas develops very strong and very fast punching, blocking and striking. Our school takes a very low stance in Kiba Dachi and it also develops very strong leg muscles.

Wonderful Kata... immense power is developed after many years of practise!!

[Samurai Shotokan]

Maybe I shouldn't of made this topic because it can be subject because the fact that some katas suit people better than others.For example Enpi may not suit a heavy set guy but it maybe be better for a smaller guy. I'm not saying the heavy set couldn't do it well but it may not suit him.

[Shorin Ryuu]

I'm still very confident that good kata can be adapted to any body type rather than adapting which kata you do on the basis of your body type.

[Sauzin]

I agree. AnonymousOne said it well that the most difficult kata often provides the greatest benefits. Let me tell you, when I first started karate there were a lot of things that I thought I would be good at. I had a certain vision of what kind of martial artist I should be. As the years have gone by and I have focused on the whole art and I have found that some of the things that I had to work hardest just to be decent at are now my greatest strengths. And they are not the same things I thought I would be good at when I started.

While I agree that in the upper skill levels the art has to become your own, I think there is something to be said about the long term benefits of going outside your comfort zone and learning kata that at first don't seem to fit. It seems to me that there is no better way to grow.

[NinTai]

Its interesting to note that the "advanced" kata were once the "only" kata.

I.E.

Uechi-Ryu was origionaly Sanchin, Seisan, Sanseiru.

Now there are about 5 "in between" kata that used the same movements

in order to make the transition more gradual. Before you would spend possibly a

year or more on one kata instead of the 3 moths usualy seen now.

But I digress even the simpliest kata, Taikyoku for example can have very

advanced applications and be a whole self defence system in itself if you

study it long enough.

[y2_sub]

tensho ; no exact reason . i just like it

[aefibird]

I'd say Tekki/Naihanchi or Kushanku/Kanku Dai are important kata to learn.

[mrbigmuscles]

Well I just learned Seipai (sp?) and it is a hell of a lot of fun to do. As my dojo teaches it is has a lot of fast blocking/striking, some slow grappling/takedown type movements and some extremely slow breathing excercise type movements. Don't know what kind of rhythms others learn it at but I really enjoy it. Out of all the Katas I have learned so far (pinan nidan, shodan, sandan, seipai) this is my favorite so far.

[Jussi Häkkinen]

Single one? Kusanku (Chatan Yara). It has all that is needed and more, when talking about bunkai.

Other great one is Chinto (Kosaku Matsumora). Close fighting cornucopia.

(Names included to indicate the versions I know and I'm talking about).

If I'd have to choose which 3 kata I'd "keep" and study over and over, they would be Kusanku, Chinto and Passai. I almost picked Naifanchi Shodan, but Kusanku really includes it (bunkai-wise) as well.