The difference between street fighting and martial arts.

[Smitty]

I was having a conversation with a friend of my Sensi's friend the other day (they're both prison guards). He was telling me that you'd have to register as a weapon when you become a blackbelt (which sounds rediculous to me, so I don't believe that one). But it got me to thinking : Ignoring philosophy, It doesn't really seem to me that street fighting and karate are all that different, just karate is more structured.

Am I right, or am I missing something?

[AnonymousOne]

It really depends on the school you train in. Some schools will prepare you well for street fighting and others dont.

Having survived countless street fights in my youth, I can testify that often what is taught and how someone attacks you in a street fight are often not the same.

Street fighting is often the reason which leads people into the martial arts. This is certainly the reason that led me into Karate when I was aged 7. I simply wanted to be able to defend myself.

Its true that I have been in countless street fights when I was younger. Its not something I am proud of but I can draw from my experiences. To my shame, when I was young, I was happy to get into fights to test my growing martial art skills and also learn. I didn’t walk away from fights, I openly encouraged them.

When I was preparing to go to Japan for the first time back in 1980, I worked in the mines in Western Australia, to work and save money to get to Japan. Being very isolated in location and from the law, there were gambling fights over bare knuckle boxing, no holds barred system. I entered these successfully and found there is not much difference to this as to street fighting – anything goes. Of course these activities were never disclosed to my Karate school because I feared I would be kicked out. But I got involved in them simply because I wanted to experience the reality of actual fighting. I will also admit that at those times I had been training in Karate for some 16 years or so and was becoming very confident in my abilities. I guess pride was a factor for me. I was once a weak sickly child that became somewhat confident in my skills. What I did wasn’t noble, but that was me in my youth.

I can tell you that these fights were vicious, fast paced and sometimes scary. Albeit, I was always able to defend myself and rarely got hurt.

I personally believe in simulation type of training. That is .... practice exactly what happens to you in a street fight. This means putting on protective gear and gloves and being attacked like your opponent wants to take your head off.

Firstly you have to identify all the ways in which you may need to defend yourself. You should be able to learn this by experience, asking your teacher, talking to other martial artists, searching the net, buying books and so on.

From my experiences I found that in 85-90% of the street fights I had, people attempt to hit you with a hay maker to your head. But you need to be prepared for all sorts of attacks like groin kicks, head butts, mid section punches, grabbing, arm locks or whatever.

Once you have identified what you need to defend yourself against then its time to develop defences and counter attacks. You will be taught things in your school and that’s great. But I am a great believer in empirical evidence that things work.

Get a training partner. Find someone who is willing to work with you and has similar goals in training. A bit of healthy competition is good.

Let me outlay what I did years ago. I trained with a friend called Ben. Ben is a short guy that is built like a brick wall. Ben is very strong and powerful. His body build and height is very similar to Mike Tyson.

Ben was an excellent martial artist and we used to get together at home in the garage or some outdoor location to practise together.

What we used to do was to simulate actual attacks. I don’t mean in the pace that you see in most dojo’s, but as close as possible to a real life situation. Ben could be mean, fierce and very intimidating to his opponents and I was fortunate to be able to have him for a partner.

We would decide on an attack lets say a haymaker to the head. Ben would wear gloves and I would wear head protection. Ben would attack me at full force and I can assure you that he was doing everything in his power to get me. It was a bit of a joke between us and as to who got the other and how often. To the bystander it may have looked liked we were really fighting. We endeavoured to simulate actual attacks and their real life onslaught as closely as possible. Naturally you will soon learn how capable you are under simulated conditions. We would stick with one attack and one response over and over and over, until we were exhausted. We would take a short rest, then we would change roles and it would be my turn for attacking. Whoever got hit the most that day had to buy lunch or dinner depending on the time of the day.

Another thing Ben and I did was to mount a boxing glove at the end of a 5 foot pole. While I was practise defending an attack from Ben lunging forward at me with the glove/pole, Ben would practise his footwork.

We also bought a tennis ball shooter, adorned ourselves in protective gear, stood close to the tennis ball shooter and attempted to block the balls as they were shot at us. My mother used to go crazy with all the tennis balls everywhere until we got a net. In later years, I got a computer programmer friend of mine to make a software programme to control the delivery of balls, plus a new electric motor that could be controlled by computer. This allows an unlimited variety of deliveries. Its excellent training for developing reaction speed. You can block, side step, body weave and so on. The machine I have can deliver balls at speeds up to 150 mph. You can adjust the speed for your personal abilities. This may seem a radical approach, but its excellent training and a lot of fun too.

We used to go over the whole realm of attacks and counter techniques. Ben was a great lover of take downs. He just loved seeing his opponent sprawled all over the ground. In fact he got so dexterous at it that, despite knowing many break falls, we had to put an old mattress down on the garage floor to stop us getting hurt.

Simulating actual attacks at full force and under the most realistic conditions possible, I cannot recommend highly enough. In fact my training with Ben over about 15 years, was a key help in preparing me for the real fights I encountered. In fact some of the fights I had were far easier than dealing with Bens onslaught of attacks. So my recommendation is to make your attacks faster and more vicious than what you might encounter … if possible.

But when you start this type of training, build up slowly and add more speed and force as time goes by as your reflexes and technique grows. This is not only excellent training but it can be a hell of a lot of fun too. Find someone who is easy to get along with and understands the principle of “true simulation”. Have full discussions on what you are trying to achieve, make notes if need be and work hard. The rewards are astounding.

[Ben Martin]

He was telling me that you'd have to register as a weapon when you become a blackbelt (which sounds rediculous to me, so I don't believe that one). .

its true.

[Sauzin]

He was telling me that you'd have to register as a weapon when you become a blackbelt (which sounds rediculous to me, so I don't believe that one). .

its true.

Um...where? In what state/city and under what code or provision? Certainly not in PA. Here's a link to an article that specifically mentions that state:

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=460

Here's a link to another thread:

http://www.karateforums.com/archive/o_t/t_18070/do_black_belts_have_to_register_themselves_as_weapons.html

So I believe the answer to that myth is no.

[taiji fajin]

Depending on where you train, street fighting can be very similar or dissimlar to street fighting. It all depends on how you're trained and what you want out of it. AO - you had some interesting ideas, it'd be fun to train with you.

Oh, and that part about "registering" yourself as a black belt is fake. There have been a few threads about it already, and you can just check with your local police (make sure they are actually looking up what they are talking about). Its an old urban legend

[Gumbi]

He was telling me that you'd have to register as a weapon when you become a blackbelt (which sounds rediculous to me, so I don't believe that one). .

its true.

No its not. That was a myth that originated out of Okinowa or something like that when Karate was introduced to the US. My memory is a little hazy, but it was something along the lines of each karate guy in okinowa had to register himself on okinowa, so that they knew who was teaching what.

The whole idea of "you have to register your hands as a lethal weapon when you're a black belt" is just a bad hangover from this period and a story made up of people who were full of themselves.

[Ben Martin]

well maybe not in the states but over here in england if you are a black belt and you get arreseted for fighting you dont get dont for g.b.h you get done for an offence with a weppon so

[granmasterchen]

there is a big difference between registering yourself as a black belt at your police station and getting into a fight and being penalized due to your skills in combat. Big difference there.

But as far as street fighting being similar to martial yets, only lacking the structure I agree with to an extent. As a street fighter you advance and find moves that are more effective by fighting over and over. You will learn holds that are effective, ways to punch that are effective, how to hit harder, where to hit places to do the most damage, and certain grappling and submission holds, you will find where its good to kick and easy to kick.

Many street fighters will be able to kick the knee and groin and know not to throw sloppy high kicks that they are not skilled in. Many will be able to throw hammer fist, uppercuts, haymakers and jabs and even combinations. Many will know head locks, and throws, and how to knee someone to the midsection or head. Some may use elbows and many wrestling moves seen on tv.

So yes, it can be similar that there are moves and such that can make a street fighter an effective fighter and that their skills improve as well, they do lack the standard structure of a martial arts class, but there is also a structure to the streets.... just something to think on.