How long SHOULD it take for your black belt?

[straycat1674]

The belt system is a fairly new concept to begin with. In the old days they just knew who was senior. The belt testing system to me is just another way for a school to make money. Saying that someone must train for so many years before they test, even if they are ready or capable is outragous. I can see the benefits of a belt system. The incentive it can offer. At the same time I can see the gree behind it to. And people all to often by into it. I Hap Ki Do, since we traditionaly do not have Katas, it is said that if you are a diligent student that practices 2 hours a day 5 days a week minimum, and you are good, then it is possible to attain first dan in 18 months. Now the student should be capable and driven. Anything else and it will take longer. But all to often it is the belt that is focused on and not the bigger picture. And if I have to say what that is then you'll never truly understand to begin with. We test students when they are ready. I am not going to force someone to stay at a certian rank just to get more tuition, and keep them in the school longer. Its all about money to soooo many people. So my answer to this question is. Test them when they are ready. Put the responsability to pass their promotion test, on them.

[blackbeltb584]

at my school... assuming that you work out at least 4 times a week for at least 2 hours each time you will get your black belt in about 3-5 years depending on if you are an adult or child. I got mine after 4 years and about 5 months.

[Balrog]

Another $0.02 on this topic....

As has been said before, there is no fixed, quantifiable time. However, there is an element of becoming a Black Belt that is purely time. One might train for hours a day and learn the basics and the curriculum for the style in as little as a year. I would argue that that does not make them a Black Belt - yet.

The training is not just punching and kicking and memorizing forms. There is also training in the application of the techniques through sparring, training in life skills as the student becomes a leader, and more. And it just takes time to do all of that and internalize it all so that it becomes more than just part of your life, it becomes part of your existance.

I really like the analogy of broiling a roast in the oven. The recipe calls for 4 hours at 250 degrees. If we crank the heat up to 500 and only leave it in for 2 hours, we wind up with something that is overdone on the outside and still raw on the inside. This is why I think "accelerated" programs do a disservice to the students; they just don't get cooked long enough to not be raw any more.

[straycat1674]

I whole heartedly agree Balrog. But what I myself have always had a problem with is when studios refuse to test students when they truly are ready, just to continue getting that monthly due. If a student truly is ready to test for the next rank, and the teacher will know, then by all means test them. Even id you do not hand out belts but, at the same time are not testing your students when they are truly ready just to keep them paying tuition longer, you still put yourself in the relm of the McDojo!

I have even known some schools that do not even test their students. They just hand out the belts or sashes when they honestly feel the student is ready. They feel that every day they are being tested by the scrutiny and supervision of senior students and the instructors. This is fine to as long as your keeping honest.

[tangsoodo]

The belt system is a fairly new concept to begin with. In the old days they just knew who was senior. The belt testing system to me is just another way for a school to make money. Saying that someone must train for so many years before they test, even if they are ready or capable is outragous. I can see the benefits of a belt system. The incentive it can offer. At the same time I can see the gree behind it to. And people all to often by into it. I Hap Ki Do, since we traditionaly do not have Katas, it is said that if you are a diligent student that practices 2 hours a day 5 days a week minimum, and you are good, then it is possible to attain first dan in 18 months. Now the student should be capable and driven. Anything else and it will take longer. But all to often it is the belt that is focused on and not the bigger picture. And if I have to say what that is then you'll never truly understand to begin with. We test students when they are ready. I am not going to force someone to stay at a certian rank just to get more tuition, and keep them in the school longer. Its all about money to soooo many people. So my answer to this question is. Test them when they are ready. Put the responsability to pass their promotion test, on them.

I agree with straycat because I can relate. At my school they promote students every 2 months and never fail students. It costs 120 dollars a month to attend the school. On belt test days, three out of every 4 students wont even know the questions that they are required to know (which is generally only a single question like how to say thank you in korean) I trained 4 hours a day from 10th gup to 6th Gup, and 10 hours a day on saturdays and about 5 on sundays, all my friends thought I was crazy, and havent had time enough to train more than 2 hours a day for the past 4 months. I am a 4th Gup now and I am much better than most of the Black belts. On fridays we have sparring and I spar with up to 2nd Dan and I win 4 out of every 5 matches, against mostly black belts. I see 2nd dans who have no respect and never train at home and dont like karate but their parents make them go. What really caused me to think back on this post and write is recently the teacher asked everyone basic questions. He asked another 4th gup, "what is the name of the art that we study," and the brown belt said TKD when we really study Tang Soo Do. He asked similar questions, nobody knew the student creed or anything. Also a 2nd Dan adult took me aside to teach me forms once and on the Peace and Confedence forms 1-5 (Pyung ahn cho dan-pyung ahn o dan) he didnt even know the names of the forms and taught me how to do them wrong. Nobody has ever failed a belt test and the belt tests are always 2 months apart, to me it seems kind of like its just paying them 275 dollars (120x2+35 dollar test fee) and waiting 2 months. Our school is attempting to change their system and at least start failing students by february however. Also at least most of the instructors know that belt ranks dont matter much.

[MartialArthur]

tangsoodo, you've got a problem. It sounds like your school has no standards for promotion, and understandably you're not very happy there. You need to find a school that you like.

[Tkd5]

For one a student needs to know all there forms,blocks,strikes,kicks, in how to use them against another person. In to become a black belt the student should at least know how to defend his self against attack on the street. Or at the very least have a better idea then most people on the street.

The Arts are for defending your self...If you don't know how to use it then your not a black belt.

TKD should take at least 4 years...

[shogeri]

When it comes to how long many people refer back to the premise of:

Quality or quantity?

The problem is that too many folks try to pit one against the other.

In reality, there should be a balance between the two.

However, if I were to give precedence to one over the over I would have to give it to quality.

What I am saying is that; Practice does NOT make perfect...Rather perfect practice makes perfect.

Of course this is with the understanding that anyone on any level of training including black belt, should realize that training never ends.

It is that moment when you feel that you have achieved something, that you need to wipe the slate clean, and start again.

If the philosophy of system is to produce decent fighters in 18 months, and they are able to do so, then that is great.

If the philosophy of a style is to produce decent instructors after 3 to 5 five years, and the results are not as expected or are too mixed to determine the effectiveness, then something is wrong.

With any system, the true test of said system is; consistency in skill, training, understanding, and application.

Without such consistency, or where it is apparent that it doesn't exist, we are hard pressed to say just how long it should take to receive a black belt.

I believe 18 to 24 months of dedicated training, with the right training methods, and the proper intent, and level of expectation from both student and instructor, would yield the equivalent skill level of fighter as that of a 3 to 5 year traditional school.

To me a Black Belt or a 1st dan Black Belt represents a two year degree, and or a 'professional certification'...

Not a bachelor degree level. This is reserved to those who have trained in similar capacity, and have done so for 4 years or more.

Whereas 7 to 9 nine years (after obtaining the first BB), would mean a person with a Master's degree.

But as many have guessed, I am not one for traditional arts, when they are not yielding what I feel are the best fighters, either due to training, philosophy, intention, or otherwise.

Again, the two roads should meet (quality and quantity), and when they do, it should be on an individual basis.

That is we should primarily measure the outcome, since everything that is going in, gets consumed along with all the rest of the variables during the process of obtaining one's Black Belt.

Jane might take 2 years, and Bob 3. Fred might take 10. And, whether you count in hours or years, in doesn't really take us to where we need to be.

For when it is all said and done, at that moment they achieve such, they are the same, to say the least, and yet they find individuality when they express such skills as they see fit.

To have a black belt is saying that you can qualify your skills, rather than merely quantify your skills.

Time in this sense, is irrelevant.

Those are just some of my thoughts, and I apologize if I repeat myself or go on and on...lol

[shukokai2000]

just over 5 years myself

[Aodhan]

I really like the analogy of broiling a roast in the oven. The recipe calls for 4 hours at 250 degrees. If we crank the heat up to 500 and only leave it in for 2 hours, we wind up with something that is overdone on the outside and still raw on the inside. This is why I think "accelerated" programs do a disservice to the students; they just don't get cooked long enough to not be raw any more.

Huh. I like that. I think I'll steal it and use it in my school when parents ask me about accelerated training.

Aodhan