How long SHOULD it take for your black belt?

[EternalRage]

At the end of the thread titled, "How long did it take for your black belt," some of the forum members digressed into a discussion of an acceptable time duration before qualifying for black belt - however the moderator instructed us to stick to the thread's original topic, and start a new one if we so desired.

I have restarted this thread in hopes of attaining the same information that the discussion was gathering for all members of the forum, both beginner and advanced. In today's martial arts world, the black belt has evolved into a different symbol (IMO) than what it was before.

I would like to discuss how long it should take to get to black belt and what it should represent (in terms of skills, performance, etc).

[Aodhan]

At the end of the thread titled, "How long did it take for your black belt," some of the forum members digressed into a discussion of an acceptable time duration before qualifying for black belt - however the moderator instructed us to stick to the thread's original topic, and start a new one if we so desired.

I have restarted this thread in hopes of attaining the same information that the discussion was gathering for all members of the forum, both beginner and advanced. In today's martial arts world, the black belt has evolved into a different symbol (IMO) than what it was before.

I would like to discuss how long it should take to get to black belt and what it should represent (in terms of skills, performance, etc).

Most everyone is going to respond in terms of years, but I think it should be looked at in hours spent. If you have someone that spends 8 hours a day, 5 days a week working on their art, I could see them easily achieving a black belt in a year or even less. (That would be 2000 hours).

I think the minimum for a black belt should be about 4-500 hours spent in training, with at least 75% of that in classes with the instructor.

Before you all start flaming, think about it. If you spend 40 hours in a week doing NOTHING but 1 form, you're going to remember it and be pretty good at it. Say an average form takes 2 minutes, you could do maybe 20 in an hour (Rest breaks, instruction, etc.). 9 weeks of that and could almost guarantee that you will be solid on forms.

You could break it down this way - first 20 hours of the week, work on new kicks/blocks/stances. If you took 1 1/2 hours of class twice a week, that would be the equivalent of 7 weeks of training. Spend the next 20 hours working on the form. The next week spend on self defense/sparring/weapons/etc.

Now, obviously there aren't too many people that can put in 40 hours a week, and not a lot that will respond to that kind of regimen. I'm presenting an optimal case. However, I think it supports the notion that 4-500 solid hours of training with instruction should be enough for a competent black belt. If you do that in 12 months, more power to you. If it takes you 3 or 4 years, hey, that's great too.

Aodhan

[Slydermv]

400 to 500 hundred hours may get you the knowledge of the movements and forms, but I think a black belt is more then that. I think a black belt is one who can apply the movements and forms... and that takes experiance and a long time.

Based on your time frame, I'll have about 450 hours of in class training in november after 2 years of classes. By that time.... I may... if I'm lucky... have maybe half of my techniqes perfected... and one or two... I might have knowledge of how and when to use them consistently (by not being told how... but by actually being able to apply them in a sparring situation...). In my school, I'm an above average student.... not gifted... but above the norm of the people we get in there.

Now how many of us are gifted? Not many... so the two year BB is not gonna happen that often...

For an average to above average student.... 800-1000 hours sounds more reasonable... 4-5 years at 4 one hour classes a week...

I really think this two year blackbelt thing is garbage... cause at my Dojang we have a few of them... and they suck...

My master I think runs a school where if you wanna train hard... he'll train you... but if you wanna pay for a black belt... he'll oblige.

After two years... I would look down at my black belt and be embarassed...

[hammer]

My master I think runs a school where if you wanna train hard... he'll train you... but if you wanna pay for a black belt... he'll oblige.

After two years... I would look down at my black belt and be embarassed...

No disrespect intended towards your master or your school, but I'd be a little concerned if he's obliging any students who want to "pay for their belt".

IMO, any school should have one set of high standards that students must meet before they can be awarded their BB. If students can't deal with those standards, then I'm sure that there are plenty of McDojo-style schools that are willing to take their money and give them a worthless belt...

FWIW, I'd estimate that it took somewhere near 900 hours over 5 years for me to reach 1st Dan. I was eligible to test earlier, but I was put off for testing for 6 months, which was somewhat discouraging. In the end, however, my instructor was right in having me wait -- I was not ready.

[JaseP]

All this talk of time requirements is fine and dandy, but it doesn't change the fact that people learn at different rates. One person spending 5000 hours learning something might take another only 500. My wife learns very slowly. I learn very quickly. It took her 3.5 years to make Black Belt with our instructor, who is a very reputable instructor in Tang Soo Do. It took me 2.5 years under my old instructor. I was a better Black Belt in 2.5 years than she was in 3.5... I don't think she'd dispute either that or the fact that when I earned my 4th Dan, I was more of a Master than she is now that she is earning hers...

What matters is dedication and learning. You can put the breaks on someone who isn't maturing well enough to be a Black Belt, but you can't really deny that they have got the material. Not everyone can learn that way. And YES there are some things that require time to learn... But NONE of them are learned at 1st Dan. I made my 1st Dan 21 years ago... So I know... The things that take time to learn get learned AFTER 1st Dan.

I don't think that Black Belt means anything different today than it did 20 years ago, or 30 years ago.

[Aodhan]

All this talk of time requirements is fine and dandy, but it doesn't change the fact that people learn at different rates. One person spending 5000 hours learning something might take another only 500. My wife learns very slowly. I learn very quickly. It took her 3.5 years to make Black Belt with our instructor, who is a very reputable instructor in Tang Soo Do. It took me 2.5 years under my old instructor. I was a better Black Belt in 2.5 years than she was in 3.5... I don't think she'd dispute either that or the fact that when I earned my 4th Dan, I was more of a Master than she is now that she is earning hers...

What matters is dedication and learning. You can put the breaks on someone who isn't maturing well enough to be a Black Belt, but you can't really deny that they have got the material. Not everyone can learn that way. And YES there are some things that require time to learn... But NONE of them are learned at 1st Dan. I made my 1st Dan 21 years ago... So I know... The things that take time to learn get learned AFTER 1st Dan.

I don't think that Black Belt means anything different today than it did 20 years ago, or 30 years ago.

Excellently put, sir!

Aodhan

[Slydermv]

No disrespect intended towards your master or your school, but I'd be a little concerned if he's obliging any students who want to "pay for their belt".

None taken... I don't agree myself, but he's feeding his kids and wife so I can't say much...

[UpTheIrons]

I think black belt should be reached in 2-2.5 years. Anything less, and it tends to be rushed. Anything over 4 years, and aside from having a hard time remembering the material, I would also question their dedication. If it takes them over four years to earn a black belt, and the school does not require a four year period, I would doubt they are applying themselves very hard.

Now, if the school requires four or more years, I would be suspicious. What exactly do you teach that requires that much time to earn a black belt? All black belt means is you have mastered the basics. That takes four (or more) years? Many schools that teach this way also have 15-20 color belt ranks. Really what that is a way to scam students for more money.

[ninjanurse]

It takes as long as it takes! Everyone is different and develops at a different rate so I don't think you can place a minimum or maximum on it. Even if you present to your students a plan to get them to BB in "x" amount of time it is still up to them to make the journey.

[hammer]

It takes as long as it takes! Everyone is different and develops at a different rate so I don't think you can place a minimum or maximum on it. Even if you present to your students a plan to get them to BB in "x" amount of time it is still up to them to make the journey.

Well said!