The value of point sparing

[cross]

If only it were that simple. If you get in a fight, odds are pretty good you'll take a hit or two. Ironically- a boxer is most likely to take the least hits, and deal with the hits the best.

I agree. In continuous sparring it may appear that people are getting hit more, or not worried about getting hit. The truth is, its impossible to stop every single one of your opponents attacks, it is however possible to minimise the damage. If we cant avoid getting hit, we minimise the impact.

[SevenStar]

This thought came to me while watching a boxing match with my brother-in-law. In this match the boxers would move in together, one would hit once or twice and the other would take the blows adn hit back 3 or 4 times. In the end the boxer who hit more times won on points. Now even tho he won the match, this stratergy would get you beaten on the street. Who on the street would just take a hit from and attacker and then dish out bigger better hits?

cool - now let's look at this from a boxer's point of view. I'm moving in, using my jab - yes, one jab - so I can probe this guy - I want to feel him out and set up combinations. Also, by using said jab, I am letting him know something is coming when he tries to close the distance. Now, this isn't a point sparring match that stops when I get hit, no. When he hits me, he will KEEP coming until I fall down, or until I answer back with strikes of my own. here come his strikes - slip, slip bob/weave - throw a few punches back, jab out and disengage. Now, I have to do it again. I'm not fighting an average joe on the street - someone I can just run over fairly easily. This guy is as good as me or BETTER - and that is the key.

When you are fighting someone of equal or greater skill and they are throwing hundreds of strikes at you, you WILL get hit - it can't be avoided. Here's an experiment to try though - go spar with a boxer. Go for several rounds. see how many times you get hit. even though he is used to taking those hits, he will likely hit you more than you hit him, as he's used to being punched at repeatedly and evading the incoming blows.

if you make the first hit your opponent is stunned and you become more likely to make the second hit, and so on.

How often does that happen? What happens when the first hit does not stun him?

[Killer Miller]

I think you all are missing the concept of point sparring altogether.

Point sparring is not on the premise of "tag, your it!" Point sparring tournaments and competitions is based on "one" point as a perfect killing technique (some styles go with two and three point matches - Traditional is one point). Now this means perfect timing, perfect speed, the right technique in a killing zone, perfect stance, perfect stability, etc. In all the tournaments I seen and participated in, you will only see one or two Ippon(s) (one full point) in the entire tournament - and generally only at higher levels. However, two Wazari (1/2 point) equals one Ippon. So, in the traditional sense, you may be stopped if you get a wazari and continue until you get another wazari or an ippon.

What's the point of this to the thread? Point sparring is not easy to do and only the best of Karate-ka are skilled enough to acquire an Ippon in a tournament. and in real life, even on the street, you don't want to mess with these persons becauce they are capable of killing you in a blink of an eye. They have trained all, or most, of their lives to reach this level of expertise.

Now let's compare this level of expertise with the average "Joe Karate-ka" that you will commonly see in tournaments where the tournament director doesn't have this level of competition or the T.D. is just doing the tournament for $$$. They are going to be awarding a lot of wazari(s) and hardly, or if none at all, any Ippon. The skill level is very low and inexperienced. The large part of these persons probably couldn't punch their way out of a paper bag much less in a street fight... This is the level that most see and compare statements with as being poor street fighters, "tag, you're it," can't punch their way from a paper bag. And that is mostly true at that level. But the purpose of the art is that when you train hard and long enough, become skilled enough to be awarded Ippon on a regular basis, you are one skilled dude or dudet and are not someone to be messed with on or off the dojo by anyone.

Fuel for thought on this discussion thread...

- Killer -

[ps1]

Of course you bring up an excellent point Killer!

However, I read an interview with Bill Wallace once where he said one of the most difficult transitions from Karate Point fighting to Kick Boxing was when you hit someone with that "Killer" technique and they just keep coming.

So from the point of view of a classical martial artist... "you are exactly right."

From the point of view of someone who's been there... "even if you get that perfect hit, they may keep coming at you! Try hitting someone who is doped up. They may die from it tomorrow, but they'll keep coming today."

Back at ya Killer

[Mr Pockets]

The one hit kill idea is no more than an idea. It works great in the movies, but in real life, if it happens even once, it probably involved some luck.

[JimmyNewton]

point sparring also stresses striking with precision and accuracy which can defintly be beneficial to a real fight

[June1]

Absolutely. I've only sparred a couple of times, but am already realizing just how useful it could be in a real fight. You've trained for so long, you probably see your attacker's move from a mile away!

[Neddo]

I dont know...

In my club is...

1/3 of training STRECHING, RUNING and everything...

1/3 of training KATA...

1/3 fighting....

Except trainings before tournaments, and trainings before "BELT EXAM" i dont know how to say that on English ...

[Dark Shogun]

Hitting first is still preferable to hitting second, and that's what point sparing can teach.

On the other hand it dosen't teach one to hit with decent contact.

So the occasional bout of point sparing may be of some use as an excercise. It can be part (a very small part) of a balanced diet.

There are differnt ways to spar and they all have their pros and cons. It may be of value to spar a few different ways.

[hayah]

Any begginer can release his arm and hit with full strength,but point sparring teaches you to draw back your hand/leg,to draw your hit,so that way you set your standard higher..with hitting included,you also have to make a attack in the right way..all that makes you a better street fighter