Sparring In Tae Kwon Do and Tang Soo Do

[Superfoot]

Can anyone tell me how students of Tang Soo Do spar, as in what tactics are used, what sequences (combinations of techniques), and any specific techniques that are favoured. I study WTF TKD, and was just curious how the WTF method of sparring differs from TSD's method. I asked a friend, and he said that TSD sparring is heavily geared towards defense, as opposed to WTF TKD. Is this true? Also, do TSD student wear hogus or any other armour? What are the footwork patterns like? Are multiple kicks used, using different or lead legs? In essence, I would like to know how a TSD student typically spars, and if possible, how this differs from a WTF student.

Thanx.

[JaseP]

Because of something called Roe Pah, meaning splitting waters (tributaries being part of the same river),... it varies from school to school. There is no one way that TSD practitioners spar. It even varies from student to student within a school or federation.

Generally no gear or Hogu is worn,... takes to long to put that stuff on (and some say it's for wimps, others say it encourages hard contact without developing control). Generally, the emphasis is on self-defense orientation, as opposed to point fighting rules (but see disclaimer below). Some schools allow light to medium contact. Others don't allow any (liability reasons). Striking edges are generally those that cause the most damage (ball of the foot for round kicks, heel for side kicks, back of the heel for hook kicks and axe kicks, ridge hands, palm stikes, etc.). Some allow hand techniques to the head, or even a light to medium contact no-holds barred style of fighting, complete with take downs and some grappling. Pushes are generally OK with most schools. Others restrict free fighting to tournament point fighting rules for liability reasons. There is no specific combination that is favored other than the practitioner's favorite. Both lead and back leg kicks are used when appropriate. Even soft style technique can be integrated.

So how do Tang Soo Do practitioners spar??? Count the Tang Soo Do practitioners,... that many ways...

Edited May 7, 2005 by JaseP

[EternalRage]

In the school I attend, we spar different ways. Sometimes hands only, sometimes feet only. Sometimes we can only use techniques from forms, sometimes its point sparring. But these we do occasionally. The sparring we usually do (and also the type of sparring that all the other types are supposed to prepare us for) is the following:

1.) Obviously no groin shots (tho it happens so much you would think this isn't a rule) and shots to back must be light.

2.) Can punch anywhere, kick anywhere (with #1 in mind).

3.) Knees and elbows are game (with control), clinching is also game.

4.) Continuous. No stopping for red belts and above.

5.) No gear. Contact increases as get more advanced.

6.) Throws, sweeps, takedowns, and groundwork is allowed.

That being said, its completely different than WTF TKD olympic point sparring, which is more competition oriented (its a game, popular sport). As it being more heavy on defense, definitely incorrect. At least in the school I attend, practitioners must be well rounded, in all ranges of fighting with all different techniques and targets.

Multiple kicks are done with same leg, lead or back, jumping, spinning, whatever. The rules are so lax that you can do anything.

I've done WTF, and I personally find the Olympic sparring to be a nice game, but its not as fun as the Soo Bahk Do (Tang Soo Do) school I currently attend. In fact, tonite in class we did mass attack sparring (2v1, 4v1, 5v2) with the ruleset above. Believe me, TKD sparring is less versatile and less practical than the sparring we do in my school. However, that doesn't diminish its value as a great international sport. That's the major difference. TKD is for sport, TSD (SBD) is not (generally of course - I've seen some crazy TKD schools that spar NHB).

[karatekid1975]

I did TSD, and now I do WTF TKD.

In my TSD dojang, we did point sparring for tournies. But in class, we did continuous sparring with the same rules as EternalRage stated.

In TKD, we also do continuous sparring. Sometimes no gear, light to no contact (depends on the belt level). Sometimes we do hard contact with gear. Sometimes we wear just the chest protector, and do contact drills. But it's within the Olympic style rules.

Our self defense drills are different, though Takedowns are allowed

[TangSooGuy]

It depends what I'm teaching, why I'm teaching, and who I'm teaching, but it ranges anywhere from tournament point sparring when my students want to go to tournaments to the range of "Rules? What Rules? where almost anything is allowed, including knees, elbows, takedowns, etc...

I don't start beginners at that level, but I expect advanced students to be able to spar that way.

Pretty much the same as what JaseP and EternalRage have posted already, really...

[UpTheIrons]

We follow WTF rules and use the following policies:

1. No groin shots.

2. No face punching or side kicks to the head.

3. No kicking to the back

4. No self defense techniques (elbows, knees etc)

5. No groundwork.

A couple of reasons for these. First, we differentiate between free fighting and self defense. If you punch them in the head, side kick the face, use elbows or knees, there is probably going to be an accident. Free fighting should feel good and energetic with causing injuries.

Second, we are not practicing boxing. Boxers punch the head. We don't. Boxers also tend to have short careers and have the "Ali" syndrome from too much head contact.

Third, TKD free fighting should promote beautiful TKD technique (high kicks, jumping, footwork, spin kicks etc.). If you don't want to work on those, don't free spar.

[ShunGokuSatsu]

We spar using NASKA rules and using core MMA rules. Sweeps, leg checks, head shots, etc. We fight realistically, because in the street, an attacker won't give a damn where they hit you as long as they take you out (pardon language). So we like to shoot and ground and pound as well as stand up and fight. Believe it or not, very few people get hurt (we wear helmets and gloves and stuff).

[UpTheIrons]

One thing that probably differentiates WTF Tae Kwon Do sparring from Tang Soo Do sparring is this: WTF sparring is continuous, meaning the fighters go at it non-stop until the ref stops the fight, for reasons that include going out of bounds or getting knocked out. As a result, WTF sparring evolved away from point fighting and toward hard contact and trembling shock.

[LUKE]

Tang Soo Do is traditionally defined in fighting by the fact that there is not one single-handed technique and that traditionally it is a front leg kicking art. But in our class this does not at all necessarily define how we spar. Most people in my class, truth be told, aren't brilliant. They only learnt from what we do in class, which is low contact, with protective gear, points sparring ie no feints, no elbows or knees, no kicks below the belt, no hand techniques to anywhere but the torso, no grappling, no takedowns. I like to kick off the front leg, not because I am traditional, just because it is faster and I am (when I fight) a south paw meaning that I unlike basically everyone I fight am right leg forward, and my right leg is strongest. As for the hand techniques I came from muay thai and can beat most black belts at my academy at hands only sparring (PS i am a green belt advanced) because they are so conventional and really telegraph their punches to anyone who has ever boxed for a little while. I have never done TKD and so cannot compare the two, but what I do know is that TKD competition sparring from what I have seen seems to have even more limitations than TSD competition sparring.

[TSDforChrist]

And, now to illustrate some major differences within TSD: at the dojang I run, beginning students do wear hogu and protective equipment, and there are no shots below the belt. As the students advance, we get to the point where sparring has three rules: dont kick the knee (thigh and shin are ok though!), dont strike the groin, and try to avoid straight on face shots. We spar continuously, complete with takedowns. Sometimes we wear equipment, and sometimes we wear none at all (though I usually will wear shin/instep guards - some of my students have picked up my habit of elbow striking an incoming foot. ouch.). We do tend to kick mainly front leg, but I think that comes from the body types of the few students I have, rather than a style question. I tend to limit some of the grappling techniques (full speed neck crank anyone?) and of course no one does the "serious fight" techniques(like spearhanding the throat). We don't tend to implement many jumping or flying techniques, but that's a question of being a small dojang. I only have two students who know how to do much in the way of proper jumping techniques, and they both telegraph them badly. Of those two, I only use jumping techniques against one of them (he knows how to deal with them, and the other is my wife. She just got her headgear yesterday, and still doesn't have a mouthpiece...I may not look it, but im wise enough not to kick my wife in the head....lol). Coincidentally, though, when I train at my friend's Shuri-ryu dojo, I use them a lot more often - they seem to work better because no one really expects me to jump in sparring.

I have noticed, in TSD at least, a tendancy towards one of two sparring styles. Either someone would rather close to hand range and is very agressive getting there (like my wife) or would prefer to stay farther out and uses kicks, but mainly counterfights. Makes for funny dances when we pair the two who would rather kick you while you are attacking, and they circle around for the whole match......

In Christ,

Phil Stewart