mental tendancies and training of the MMA/UFCer

[usatkdwtf]

sevenstar; Im 27 actually, but I do think MMA have no desire to learn the mental benefits of TMA. Thas not really the concern right?

Im a TMA, and as I get more involved in training for MMA it seems much more hardcore and aggresive which makes me that way in comparison to how I was with just TMA training.

I think a jaded view of MA is what most MMA view is. Just want to learn what "works" and forget the rest. Thats what I find myself being more concerned with lately also. Which I dont really mind to an extent.

[SevenStar]

sevenstar; Im 27 actually, but I do think MMA have no desire to learn the mental benefits of TMA. Thas not really the concern right?

on that issue, I agree with you. I don't have that desire either. You mentioned manners, however, which is different - I'm no less mannerable than I was before I started training; more aggressive, but not less mannerable.

Im a TMA, and as I get more involved in training for MMA it seems much more hardcore and aggresive which makes me that way in comparison to how I was with just TMA training.

training can do that for some people. I'm known of that to happen to some southern mantis guys also.

[SevenStar]

They train pretty hard and do lots of Randori.

according to a couple of other san soo guys on this forum, they don't randori at all.

[Treebranch]

Well then I was lucky to train at that school. Maybe they are afraid of lawsuits? Who knows? Have you looked or studied San Soo's techniques and tactics? Mix that into what you are doing with your training methods and you will surprise the crap out of everyone.

[Daedalus]

lol you and me have got to spar some time you sound just like me. i to want to be the best and i have the mind set that no matter what someday i will be champion. i curently train 20hrs a week

5hrs TKD

4hrs Judo

2hrs kung fu

2hrs Boxing

2hrs Muay thai

5+hrs running/training at home

10hrs Wrestling (during season)

i would like to train more but i just dont have the time.

Sounds like you would be alot better off if you eliminated TKD and Kung Fu from your training, and added MMA sparring into the time you used to use for those. Other then that it sounds like you are on your way to competing man. Good luck.

[Muaythaiboxer]

Thx Deadalus, keep watching MMA you will see me on top some day

i nearly agree about the kung fu part but my TKD school is actually very good and is not like the normal TKD you see.

as to the quiting them and spending that time doing MMA sparing i would but no one wants to do MMA in my town and believe me i have looked for potential oponents.

[Chaz]

san soo is a very effective martial art but i really dought that the average san soo guy could beat a pro MMA fighter. mabe the really great san soo guys (like the master who killed japans karate champ in 2 minutes in WW2) but not the average guy. plus you say that its the mind set, you have to be really tough to go 15 rounds in professonal boxing and even tougher to do MMA so how can you say that the MMA fighter has an inferrior mind set?

Sorry, I was a little vague/general witht that statement. What I was trying to imply is and average everyday MA trainee, so not a Pro MMA, or a San Soo Master. Just the average joe that trains in either San Soo or a tourny based art. And when I speak of mind-set and psychology, I'm thinking more about the deception, and art of war reasoning involved, the witt of REAL combat not the endurance of a prescribed fight (Which I'm not trying to put those pro's down, i know they are tough) for we all know, a real conflict will almost never be anticipated before it happens unless your acustom to getting yourself into trouble... But, I also base my opinion on one of San Soo most valued principals, "If your opponent is a better fighter than you, don't give him a chance to be..." The Tao of War and All Combat is deception. I hope I'm explaining my opinion clear enough... (And it was under 20 seconds...)

[Chaz]

I agree with your first two sentences, but completely disagree with the rest. I think he does have a jaded outlook on MA. However, I disagree with your assertion that sport guys are limiting themselves by practicing restraint, when you in essence do the same thing. If you are not breaking those bones in every practice, you are restraining. If you are not hitting full contact and power when you strike, you are restraining.

That sword is very double edged. On one side, you've got the MMA who knows how to deal with adrenaline, is calm under stressful circumstances, knows how to deal with an attacker, but may not know what some may consider a "more efficient" way of ending a fight (I put it in quotes because I think that's crap, but that's beyone the point of this post) On the other hand you have the san soo guy who knows the right points to strike, knows how to end the fight "more efficiently" has the skill, but due to lack of experience dealing with unfriendly people in an unfriendly environment, doesn't know how to deal with adrenaline, may crumble under stress, etc. Just as ortiz was jumped (as I mentioned above), I've also seen many TMA get mauled in the street. Such is life.

You have a very good point made here about restraint, and your right, we do practice restraint but it is a different type than a tournament fighter would use, once again I feel your only seeing the surface. Correct me if I'm wrong, and lets be mature here, but in a tournament you are fighting for points, and those points are made by making clean hits. So in a tournament your aim would never be to kill as to go for the throat, Spine, or to punch in the kidney to get a painful reaction backwards to open up all sorts of lethal opritunittys in order to end the fight in order to survive, your going for the point, you allready have it for that matter... The only kind of restraint I can relate to is the force of my blows, but the mental part is well intact where as the tourny guys is not. When I am in free work out I am hitting vital points with discretion causeing different reactions to my partner that I know the concequnces of which will open oppritunitys to me, the tourny guy, he's got the point what does it matter to him? Thats why I don't agree with MENTAL restraint. It would be silly if my instructor said " Ok, if you hit here or you do this, this will break this or kill him. But don't practice it because you'll be disqualified if you become accustomed to it and use it in a tournament." It's all on the surface... You have to train deeper if you really want the best protection out of youself. (Also, we do things to elevate our adreniline, you don't think a San Soo practitioner gets tunnel vision?) To me it's just much more comprehensive and efficient, maybe not always at a lower level, But almost certainly in the Mastery. I hope I'm making my opinion clear...

[Muaythaiboxer]

Chaz i do agree that if you took two guys off the street and one trained in san soo and the other in MMA that the san soo guy would probably deal with a street altercation faster than a MMA. but for most MMA the point of there training is to become good ring fighters and the self defence is just an added bonus. whale the San soo fighter is trained to fight on the street.

[CQB]

interesting posts. I had to reread the original post to understand the question being asked.

Do I want to ever compete in MMA? No. MMA is a gruelling sport, a full contact sport, and one that requires extreme dedication to excel in. That being said, it's not the work ethic required that makes me not want to compete. I just prefer to put my efforts forth for genuine street training that's all. MMA training is hard, no doubt - I've done it. But there are rules the fighters are forced to train within. So they train to be as tough as possible WITHIN those rules. I think for a street application that limits their options since they train to fight within those rules to begin with. I've had many friends who fought on the street MMA style - nothing dirty, just intense MMA stuff, which usually does the trick. But then you get the guy who does MMA stuff WITH dirty stuff and while you're duking it out he grabs your nuts and pokes at your eyes as well - well you get quite the reality check! Case in point: one of our instructors was at a seminar by a well-known MMA fighter with the initials FS. He was very humble, and explained how he was naturally blessed to be able to excel in MMA, and that he wanted to share his knowledge and skills with others. Cool! Then he said that those people who train to poke people's eyes out, who train to bite, who train to break fingers and grab/strike people's groins.... THOSE people scare him. i liked that - he kept it real. no ego, just honesty. Could he handle himself? Of course! But I am always about the SYSTEM not the fighter. Please read on for further explanation.

How often do I train? Not as much as I'd like to. Just got a baby girl - keeps the wife & me busy as hell! Train twice a week while teaching twice a week while working FT 5 days a week.

Do I have mental issues? Probably.

Last point (i promise, heheh) is it's also about the system. I like to look at it this way. Take two guys, identical guys, with NO PREVIOUS TRAINING, and with the same general personality traits. Just accept this please. Then, train one guy in system A, and the ohter in system B. Then train them for the same duration - 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, whatever.

Then.... let them fight against the same BG on the street under the same circumstances. THEN... let's see which SYSTEM is more effective for the street.

The fighter determines so much of the outcome of an altercation, this we alreayd know. But I want to learn about SYSTEMS that are superior for street situations. And to judge that I try not to get caught up with the tough guys who train in those systems, rather I try to see how the systems work in the first place for the average person. A good system should NOT rely on the fighTer being a tough guy in the first place - that should be a bonus, not a qualification. It's all about the actual TRAINING and METHODOLOGIES of a system AND THE APPLICATION it was designed for, that determines whether it will be successful on the streets or only in sport or both.

just MHO.

be safe,

CQB

Edited May 14, 2005 by CQB