Karate sparring UN EFFECTIVE ON STREET

[elbows_and_knees]

If sparring really wasnt effective, Im sure it would not have been practiced for centuries.

It wasn't. it was rare for chinese schools to spar. Naturally, this crossed over to the okinawan schools, and later to the japanese karate styles as well. their "combat training" was more based on chi sao, two man drills, etc. and (I'm guessing on this last one) the experience of people who had been in fights. funakoshi RELUCTANTLY introduced sparring - but that was less than 100 years ago. If I remember correctly, he thought that sparring would take away the essence of the style. Most of the japanese jujutsu schools didn't spar either - even the most notorious jj school in japan didn't spar. Then they were schooled by kano's judo guys - guys who did spar. the jj guys practiced techniques that couldn't be used safely in a sparring environment, and thus did not spar.

To this day, there are STILL chinese, okinawan and japanese schools that don't spar.

As for Mas-Oyama-Sosai, RE: the bulls,

Ive seen some 8mm footage of a portion of this feat, in deed, it is quite plausable some of the bulls were sickly,

but I can tell you, the bulls in the footage ive seen are quite brutal, the type which disperse large crouds when loose-rapidly,

ask anyone whos done rodeo, I dont think youd get them standing in front of a 400kg enraged bull barehanded, ready to strike it barefist.

Osu.

I don't disagree with that at all. My only point with the bulls is that it doesn't show much, other than strength. You can't base his fighting ability off of that feat. (which was mentioned earlier)

[SubGrappler]

If you were to judge someone's fighting ablity by their feats of strength, then the worlds strongest man would also be the worlds best fighter.

[Traditional-Fist]

Killing a bull with your fists does not only constitute strength but also speed, timing, courage and POWER. When Oyama hit you, that was it. You would go down with broken bones and this did apparently happen to some of his opponents that included muscle bound wrestlers as well.

[elbows_and_knees]

as stated, attributes DO NOT equate to fighting skill. A gymnast has all of the things you just mentioned, as do football players and other athletes.

[BLueDevil]

Wow, somewhere we got into MMA discussions anyway.....

Anything can happen in a fight so stay sharp and spar or dont whatever helps you acheive your goals

[Menjo]

I think karate at the very least gives you a kinda of feel and basic fondation to fight off of, it did that to me when I first started out anyway. I also realized of what i thought of fighting before was totaly ineffective...

[Traditional-Fist]

as stated, attributes DO NOT equate to fighting skill. A gymnast has all of the things you just mentioned, as do football players and other athletes.

All the things that I mentioned were mentioned in the MARTIAL CONTEXTand not in footsball or other atheletics context.

[elbows_and_knees]

your context is irrelevant. They are attributes. Attributes do not make fighting skill. Period. We've all seen MA with superior attributes get mauled by "street fighters"... Why does this happen? Because his attributes were not enough...

[MadMatt]

One of the flaws of all MA systems is that they were developed for use against other martial artists to be tested in challenge matches (even if in warfare, still it was mostly used against trained soldiers), not against desperate criminals or thugs that will do everything they can to cause bodily harm. That's why street fighters are far more dangerous than martial artists because they fight without honour.

Most martial art forms have huge limitations in adapting to real self defence scenarios and this issue needs to be addressed by all instructors.

MA fighting for sport is one thing, self defence is completly different and nobody should claim otherwise.

[ClA]

conclusion...sparring is like a street fight exept its controled

if your a great sparrer youl do well in the street...

And this is where you are wrong. Sorry.

You just contradicted yourself. The whole problem with street fights is because it is NOT controlled. And that makes all the difference in the world.

Besides, one important thing that determine whether you win in a street fight is FEAR. Almost all the time in a street fight, the person that fear the least is going to win. Size and skill matter less.

Why is fear important? Fear turns your Adrenalin on. Adrenalin burs your vision and tighten up your muscles.

What you can do in a controlled spar (least fear), you'll be surprise you can't do any of that once fear and adrenalin kicks in.

But sparring does help you "visialize" how you'd react in a real fight. Do enough of it and your fear level reduces. THAT how it prepares you for a real fight.