Empty pockets

[pineapple]

If you had a good student who ran into financial problems, would you allow this student to train for free?

[danege]

Most definately. Thats what martial arts is all about.

This is a little bit of a poem that i think sums it up perfectly.

"If you meet a Student and you know he is an evil person;

then you would not teach him even for 10,000 pieces of Gold.

And if he is not Righteous and has no Honour,

You would not teach him even if he were your Relative.

But if he is Righteous and has Honour,

You should teach him even if he is a Stranger to you and has no Money."

So yeah, i think you should let him train for free. Maybe he can help you out in some way to repay his training, or just let him pay later on, or just give whatever he can.

[Venrix]

Absolutely yes. I would not make it 'public knowledge'. But, if you trust the guy - then train the guy.

Let's face it, passing knowledge from Generation to Generation is an integral element of the Martial Arts. Money shouldn't get in the way.

Sure, we need it to survive - but, it doesn't sound as though 'survival' is the issue here.

-V-

[elila]

You're not going to get much/any money from him whether you teach him or not. And it's not too much of a hassle to keep teaching him, is it?

[karatekid1975]

I would. My TSD instructor did that for me. I lost my job at the time, and he let me clean the dojang to pay for tuition. When I got a job, to repay him, I kept cleaning for him. So, I would do the same to someone else.

[Grenadier]

Not entirely for free. Before anyone starts flinging flames in my direction, please allow me to elaborate:

1) I would allow the student to pay what he could, and defer the rest for later, as good students do deserve a chance to prove themselves. During this time, he would certainly be welcome to train, with the understanding that he would be expected to be square with the house in a reasonable time. As long as he can make reasonable payments along the way, with the understanding that he will square things away later, then I see no problem with this.

2) If the student wants to cancel some of the debt by doing various things for the dojo, I would certainly encourage him to try it. For example, if he's a dan rank, then I'd allow him to organize and lead a demonstration, or teach classes in exchange for some credit, etc. If he becomes an instructor on a regular basis, then this would certainly benefit both parties involved. He might even come out a few dollars ahead each month.

If he's a kyu grade, there are always projects that are available, such as painting the walls, sweeping / mopping the floor, vacuuming the carpets, cleaning out the refrigerator, passing out flyers at various grocery stores, etc. This would certainly be worth some credit as well. There's no shame in doing menial labor for the dojo.

Now, on the flip side of the coin (as I put on the black hat):

If a good student is unwilling to at least make an effort to meet us halfway (see the above examples on doing things to help out the dojo), and thinks that he can train for an extended time without paying, I simply wouldn't allow that. I know it sounds harsh, but encouraging this kind of lax discipline when it comes to financial matters will only lead to the dojo eating the costs of many more such charity cases.

If such a student is unwilling to meet us halfway, these would be the options:

1) Take a break. Even if he's unwilling to help the dojo, at least he can do something to fix the financial situation. Whether this means re-organizing his finances, or taking another job (McDonald's is always hiring, and those who stick with it can actually make decent money), is up to him.

or

2) Find a school that charges less. I would honestly rather have him training in a rival school, improving himself, than to be sitting around doing nothing.

To conclude my "man with the black hat" statement, I would say that a good student that wants to train, should also be honorable enough to realize that he should be squared away with his debtors. To this date, I have never had to take a good student to court in order to collect on the money owed, and pray to God that I never ever have to resort to such methods.

[tkdBill]

Grenadier: You have some great ideas. I completely agree that the student should take some responsibility and meet you part of the way in order to continue training.

What you are proposing is a lot more than your landlord or electric company would offer you if you couldn't pay them!

--

[mindsedgeblade]

Hmmm... sounds like Karate Kid... =;-}

[UpTheIrons]

It has been my experience that many students will not accept receiving lessons for free, even in the case of financial hardship. They do not want to be viewed as charity cases. I have offered to let students who had money problems train free of charge, and they refused on the grounds that my expertise was worth paying for. What they will accept is paying what they can afford until they get things straightened out. There is a thing called pride. A lot of students do not want to have to come to class knowing they are not paying the same amount as everybody else. They want to be equal.

So would I? Yes.

Have I offered? Yes.

Have my offers been refused? Yes.

[Sam]

If it were impossible for them to pay then yes i would let them go free.

but as grenadier points out its all about time (mcdonalds....etc are hiring).

but sometimes things in peoples life coincide to create unexpected problems, in exceptional cases i would allow it.

Other wise i agree with Grenadier who put it very eloquently.