Bokken/any weapon kata question...

[parkerlineage]

I'm fully aware that the best way to learn a weapon is from an instructor.

But I live in a small town, where there are three karate schools, and I belong to one, where we only have four "official" weapons kata - one each for sai, nunchaku, kama, and bo. I personally have developed a second sai kata that we teach the students, and have learned another three bo kata.

I recently bought a bokken, because I decided I should look into Kenjutsu or Kendo...

My question is...is it just me being spoiled by AK's ridiculously long kata, or are most weapons kata from other styles ridiculously short? Am I looking at the wrong places?

Anybody who has any advice other than, "See an instructor" (not helpful, but thanks!)...feel free to say something.

Peace;

Parkerlineage

Edited May 4, 2005 by parkerlineage

[parkerlineage]

Quick update:

Just went to Barnes & Noble and looked at books about Kendo.

I wish to revise my statement:

I've decided I should look into Kenjutsu or some other sword art (but not Kendo)...

Forgive me, and I'm sure it's a great sport, but the more I read, the more I decide martial sports aren't for me.

Peace;

Parkerlineage

[Gunyo Kogusoku]

Mate, if it isn't in your syllabus, don't do it. Simple as that.

Pros can spot homemade forms a mile off.

As a practicioner of classical Japanese martial arts, I do kenjutsu as well as jujutsu. If I added something like sword & hammer or Delayed sword to my jujutsu syllabus and said, "Hey this is part of my school!", what would your impression be?

[Sauzin]

I'm of the same mind as Gunyo Kogusoku. It is largely a waste of time to work without an instructor. Particularly with sword work. If you have a combination of really good source material and a lot of patience you might learn a few things about other weapons, depending...

Please don't take this wrong, but I have yet to see a weapon kata that really looked in depth and legit from American Kenpo. I don't know what lineage you guys have for your weapons but what I have seen looked rather recently made up. Having a background like this might make it actually harder to interpret kobudo kata from other resources on your own. Your best bet might be to correspond with a weapons instructor on material that both of you can look at. Sending tapes back and forth with lots of e-mails and long phone conversations might be your best bet. These day's online video conferencing might offer another good option.

Also in regards to the length of kata with weapons. In kobudo the kata are very similar to the length of non-weapon karate kata. 2-3 minutes is the average done at a steady pace. You can image since kobudo (the primary origin for sai's, nunchaku, bo, etc) evolved along with karate on Okinawa they both have very similar lengths along with other shared characteristics such as certain stances and timing. They have many unique aspects as well however, this is really where the value is.

I truly respect your desire to learn a non-sport weapon system. There are many arts that focus on the actual practical use of the weapon that have a huge history of effectiveness and art. Many of the old masters prized weapon work greatly, and they had their reasons. I wish you luck and if there is any assistance I can provide with any kobudo weaponry please let me know.

Respectfully,

-Paul Holsinger

[Gunyo Kogusoku]

Kenjutsu kata, depending on the ryuha (school) can be either very long or very short. Either way, if you have no experience in JSA and are relying on some sort of manual, stay away from the weapons.

[parkerlineage]

Thank all three of you greatly for your input and thoughts.

I have already decided to not ever perform, teach, or exhibit my work with the blade. I will look into it, wait until I move to a bigger city when I go to college, and then perhaps try again, there.

Please don't take this wrong, but I have yet to see a weapon kata that really looked in depth and legit from American Kenpo. I don't know what lineage you guys have for your weapons but what I have seen looked rather recently made up.

Offense? Hardly. Our weapons lineage:

Nothing.

Parker.

Maybe.

I don't even think Parker made up our weapons forms. We have a single bo kata that is "traditional". I have my doubts. If you see any other Kenpoist doing a weapons form they claim to be an official part of their system, they're full of it. My Sensei made weapons kata based off our empty hands kata and weapons basics. "Long Form" 7-Whatever are others' "weapons" forms, and they are not Parker.

As a practicioner of classical Japanese martial arts, I do kenjutsu as well as jujutsu. If I added something like sword & hammer or Delayed sword to my jujutsu syllabus and said, "Hey this is part of my school!", what would your impression be?

Wow. Excellent point. I would think, "Yeah, right. Maybe I should help that guy..." and I probably would. But yeah, if you said it was part of your system...I would be tempted to...find out where you learned the name of our techinques. I'm impressed. But, anyway, good point.

[Dark Shogun]

Also most boken kata are 2 man kata although you can do each side individualy. If you want solo kata you may wish to look into iaido. This is usualy done with a real sword and not a boken although you can get a saya(scabard) that will fit a boken.

In any event, find an instructor and good luck.

[Gunyo Kogusoku]

If you haven't been taught, don't teach.

If you do, you are lying to yourself and to your students. The worst kind of conceit.

[Mr. Mike]

To my knowledge, the only weapon in my system(of which Parker is the SGM) is the Bo. There is a kata we call the Kenpo Staff Set.

Also, my instructor has learned from Tadashi Yamashita and is passing Iaito along to us...not as core Kenpo curriculum, but more of an extra curricular thing.

[parkerlineage]

Thank you for your words of wisdom, Gunyo Kogusoku. I have no idea how that pertains to this. But it is a good statment.

Moving on...

Yeah, I know the Staff Set. Actually, it's the best bo kata I know...covers all the basics, has cool kicks...etc...

Iaido...I shall look into that...

Peace;

Parkerlineage