omitting basics for advanced students !??

[y2_sub]

I think that having a blackbelt class where they use tools like focus pads, and/or heavy bags is fine. It might be an idea to add a class a week, or every other week that just focuses on sparring techniques. In periods where you're gearing up for tournaments, adding a special focus would be great.

I wouldn't recommend eliminating basics altogether, however, as the movements in sparring are different than in basics/kata.

Generally, as I'm sure you're aware, the movements in basics are more exagerrated than their sparring counterparts. In addition, the movements in sparring are subject to the rule limitations for sparring in your sport (light contact, no contact, no head contact, nothing below the waist, etc), whereas your basics should focus on all potential targets. Focusing solely on what works best for point sparring will make you fast, and good at that particular activity, but can allow for very sloppy techniques that may be ineffective in actuality.

I really think a balanced approach is best. The measure of the effectiveness of the training methods of a (traditional) martial art is not necessarily how well it does in point sparring competitions.

Good post ..

But let me tell you one thing . Our sparring system is not point sparring , it's full contact , knock down system . So , you actually are going to use your moves in real situation the same way you are using them in sparring ( i mean we are not missing anything by not doing karate techniques in traditional way , we are allready performing techniques with full power on most of the parts of human body) .

The only way to score in our system is to knock down your opponent so that denies your "Point sparring" argument .

As for balenced training , i really think it's the best approch , and thats what we are actually doing now in the dojo , but since we have at least one or two tournaments per month , most of our training is ( and should be ) focused on sparring

[Balrog]

A second degree black belt in our dojo proposed an idea which is : an advanced player ( yoshudan ) should switch from performing basics and sparring into sparring training only .. his claims are

1 - an advanced student has already learned basics and has no need to

repeat the same techniques every session

2 - training on fitness bag is more energy drilling , plus , you can practice

moves with full contact without the fear of hurting ur fellow training partners

Your comments

That's like saying one should switch from training while breathing to training without breathing.

You can never do the basics often enough. They are your support and foundation.

[Sensei Rick]

He sounds board and like he knows it all. I see that a lot in shodans but rarely with nidans. hmmmm, is he a problem student?

[shogeri]

There are differences between:

A. Fighting basics (speed, timing, reaction, position balance)

B. Basic techniques (specifically applied responses)

C. Basic principles of combat

Now 'B' might be drilled into a person, but their fighting basics, and their basic principles of combat, can dwindle over time.

One has to keep re-kindling the fire, or feeding the dragon in this case, in order to maintain a sufficient level of basic martial art training throughout their life, which includes items A, B, and C.

Now my system is similiar in respect to Muay Thai, and Jujutsu. So full contact is not an option. However, neither is point sparring.

There are differenct training methods one uses in order to gain the maximum benefits of any particular fighting method.

Just some thoughts...

[kzshin]

terrible idea. Basic is the most important of them all.

[ovine king]

i think a lot of people have taken the wording of the title of the thread and imbued their own bias into the discussion.

All i see here, is that someone is looking at how to practice the basics with an actual context

i.e take that basic punch and put some esistance behind it.

Does the fact that that punch might deviate from the non-resisted form, mean that it is no longer the same as the basic version of that punch done in the air?

If done correctly, when-ever you perform a so called advanced tenchnique, the basic technique is still in there.

Then there's the case that I believe that up a certain level, basic training should be something that is done outside of the class and class time should be spent of more 'live' training or else you are wasting valuable 'partner' time.

[Kajukenbopr]

i think that person should go through all the training from white belt again. Learning how to proper block, how to throw a punch, how to throw a kick, the beggniner katas, etc

and do them well, if not, he can begin his karate training all over again

[innocui]

For good sparring you need good basics, if you stop basics, your technique will slip, and you training in general will suffer

[KF Dude]

The basics progressively develop the body & the foundation to build strong techniques. Skip over it, movements would be so uttery weak to be of any use.

[Chaz]

You can stop doing basics when you've mastered the art your in, even then you should probably still do them every now and then. Of course, if your a teacher or school owner, that wouldn't be a hard thing to accomplish. ...Bad idea