what do you think about Kyokushin karate

[kenpo_fighter]

Kyokushin is very popular around the world, except the USA. My impression is that the hard contact and pain involved were too much for the average customer, who tended to gravitate towards TKD or Shotokan. With MMA, Muay Thai, K-1 getting a lot of media coverage, the market's fear of pain and contact may have lessened and Kyokushin might find more interested followers. Perhaps it has already missed the boat.

Kyokushin is also riven into different factions, each denouncing the other, which is unfortunate. It'd be nice, though highly unlikely, for all the different groups to be united under one governing body with a talented, charismatic and market savvy leader.

it is unfortunate that kyokushin in popular worldwide & not in the US. it's mostly because the modern american society doesn't believe in taking a beating in order to give one. that's why there are all these blackbelts walking around that may do good scoring points, but will suffer a painful defeat on a dim lit street corner.

it is also unfortunate for this huge rift in the kyokushin organization. the one & only mistake oyama sensei before his unfortunate passing; not naming a successor.

[kenpo_fighter]

The only real 'downside' to Kyokushin is the lack of throwing, ground skills and 'head strikes'.

That said, it is without a doubt the most 'intense' form of Karate you could choose to practise.

If you are looking for 'stand up fighting only' then this is the perfect choice. However, if you would like to become an 'all round fighter' then you will need to compliment Kyokushin with other arts (eg. Judo, Jiu Jitsu).

If you like - take a look at my signature. I've put together a 'beginners guide'. It should tell you everything you need to know.

-V-

having trained in kyokushin for 5 years, i can confidently agree on your outake on this. learning an ground fighting style would make a kyokushin fighter even more deadly. fortunately, my 4 years of wrestling in high school have proven useful in my training.

not to justify this "void" in the art, but i think it's because oyama sensei focused on the "one hit, one strike" philosophy. therefore, defeating any need for ground fighting techniques.

[Venrix]

...but i think it's because oyama sensei focused on the "one hit, one strike" philosophy. therefore, defeating any need for ground fighting techniques.

Hi mate,

I see what your saying and pretty much agree. I would never 'take' a fight to the ground. My Judo and Jiu Jitsu is a 'support system'. Mas Oyama never fought anyone that would take him to the ground. He only fought Karateka (not counting the ox he fought!) so, his philosophy of Karate (one strike) was sound.

It's also a sound principle in a real-life situation. But, I think of Judo and Jiu Jitsu like a seat-belt and air bag in the car. You hope you wont need them - but, it wouldn't be wise to drive without them... ...just in case there is a crash.

It doesn't matter how skilled a driver is... ...he can always find himself in a crash (met.: on the ground).

The one & only mistake oyama sensei before his unfortunate passing; not naming a successor.

Mas Oyama was a very proud man and was the 'face' of Kyokushin Karate. He wasn't really the 'fighter' - he was the 'PR Man'. This is not to say that he wasn't a great fighter (because he was). It is simply a fact that people like Kurosaki (in the earlier days) and Matsui or Midori (in more recent times) did the fighting on behalf of the Kyokushinkaikan.

Unfortunately, a great deal of Mas Oyama's reported exploits were simply the martial arts equivalent of political 'spin'. It's sad really. Mas Oyama was a great man - and these stories that are designed to make him appear 'godlike' are simply turning him into a cartoon character. If people really want to honour him, it would be wise to cut out the stories and stick to the facts. For the facts are more impressive than the unbelievable (and untrue) 'legends'.

Some claim therefore, that his failure to name a successor may have been a deliberate action on his part. It is thought, in some circles, that he may have intended the splintering.

Possible Reason 1: He didn't want Kyokushin to survive without him.

Possible Reason 2: The splintering would force an 'evolution' in the style. Weaker systems would grow from it and become extinct. Stronger systems would grow from it and survive.

I must admit though. 'Kyokushin Politics' saddens me. It's passing as an organisation is sad but, it's evolution as a style is invigorating. Of course, the down side is the soft Kyokushin decendant styles that train 'soft' and claim the name of Kyokushin.

-V-

[Traditional-Fist]

Venrix,

According to some of my reading regarding the great Mas. Oyama, he did fight wrestlers and judo men and he did indeed defeat them. He was probably never taken to the ground by them because he hit each one of them ONCE and that was enough .

[1985]

Venrix,

According to some of my reading regarding the great Mas. Oyama, he did fight wrestlers and judo men and he did indeed defeat them. He was probably never taken to the ground by them because he hit each one of them ONCE and that was enough .

hello everybody. first post and so on.

I just had to say this, but i actually think Oyama was a blackbelt in judo. And i have heard rumors about havig to have a blackbelt in judo before even trying for a bb in kyokushin, but that in just what i have heard.

[Venrix]

I just had to say this, but i actually think Oyama was a blackbelt in judo. And i have heard rumors about havig to have a blackbelt in judo before even trying for a bb in kyokushin...

Hi mate,

You're right. It's just another 'legend'. Oyama never practised Judo.

-V-

[1985]

Yeah, i kind of suspected that about the trying for blackbelt. But that he never trained in judo? you have any sources for that? because everywhere you look it says that he trained for four years and earned a yondan.

By the way, nice homepage.

[Venrix]

...you have any sources for that? because everywhere you look it says that he trained for four years and earned a yondan.

Hi mate,

I've been lucky enough to train with Jon Bluming (Kyokushin 10. Dan, Judo 9. Dan) and he has 'dispelled' many of the 'legends'. He was there and is the ONLY westener to receive at 10. Dan in Karate/Kyokushin from Japan.

He has a book called, "Street Punk to 10. Dan" and it's layed out in there. From the people that never actually did the 100 man kumite (that are credited with it) to the 'stories' about Sosai Oyama.

I can tell you now. Bluming is not trying to discredit Oyama. He loves the man. He just thinks the stories are a discredit to the reality of Oyama's incredible achievements.

Other things in the book (by way of example):

Oyama knew NOTHING about grappling, ground work or throwing. (Not quite in line with a 4. Dan in Judo...)

The 'bull' was an OX that was beaten almost to death by Kurosaki BEFORE the great 'bull fight'.

There was just the one 'bull fight'. NO others. Kurosaki even loosened the horns of the animal with a hammer before the great 'horn chop' for which Oyama is infamous.

Oyama could not have won the open Knock Out Karate Championship in 1947, Kyoto (as is claimed) in order to 'demonstrate his new style'. Budo, especially Karate, was banned by the General McArthur of the occupation.

And many, many others.

Remember: these are not my claims. They are the statements of those that were with Oyama from the beginning (Bluming, Kurosaki etc).

If you are interested take a look at this:

http://www.kyokushinbudokai.org/content/history/bl-interview.html

and this...

http://www.realfighting.com/0102/jbsem.htm

and this...

http://www.realfighting.com/0102/jonblubk.htm

Hope that helps you in your research. I highly recommend the book.

By the way, nice homepage.

Thanks. I'm glad you like it.

-V-

[1985]

Thanks for the links.

In my dojo we don´t learn that much about the "legends" about Oyama, we train. And when i read on the internet about him understand why. It is hard to know what to belive in.

I mean, i am sure that if i look around i would find sites saying that Bluming is a liar and trying to miscredit Oyama, i know that you said he dosen´t.

But it is hard to know if someone you haven´t met is trustworthy or not.

[Venrix]

In my dojo we don´t learn that much about the "legends" about Oyama, we train.

That's the smartest thing anyone has said so far. All our dojo's have a NO POLITICS rule. Training only.

...it is hard to know if someone you haven´t met is trustworthy or not.

Absolutely. The internet's greatest strength and simultaneously its greatest weakness: anyone can say anything they want.

Osu!

I wish you great success in your training.

-V-