Did UFC change the way of looking at trad KungFu and Karate?

[SubGrappler]

There is no problem in training another art as well as kung fu as long as one has mastered his kung fu first, and I am very sorry Jason Delucia is no kung fu master.

He has a red sash in all 5 animal styles

Deep rooted KUNG FU stance means that one will not be easilly uprooted/takendown,etc...i.e. The takedown will take a little longer to accomplish, if at all. It also means that a powerful (kung fu) blow can be delivered by the exponent during the "delay" that will occur during a takedown attempt.

No it doesnt. This is pretty much how it works- a deep rooted stance means you can deliver powerful blows, but it also means you have no chance to sprawl either. If you're flat on your feet, or rooted in the ground, the takedown will be quicker and easier. Being light on the feet means you take considerable power away from your blows, but also allows for quick takedown defense.

Theres 3 defenses to being taken down- the first is your hands, second is your elbows, third is your hips. If you stand your ground in a deep rooted stance, then theres no way for you to make space between your hips and mine-therefore you'll be much much easier to take down than otherwise.

Wrestlers are the masters of takedowns. If this were true, you could go in to the Olympics and win an Olympic Gold Medal using this technique. Theres a reason why it hasnt been done.

Royce won that fight because his ground skills were vastly superior to Delucias and he succeeded in taking the fight to the ground.

and because Jason did not do much when he was standing either.

Thats the idea of closing the distance- Jason tried to get his shots in. But against someone determined to close the distance' date=' you're going to end up in a clinch. Once they got there, Royce was the better of the two and succeeded in taking the fight to the ground.

He may be a good fighter but certainly not a good Kung Fu fighter, that is my only point

I believe someone posted his homepage. Im sure he'll answer questions you may have.

[Sam]

Also a deep rooted stance physically doesnt make all takedowns harder.... since by going deep, to make the stance stronger it needs to be wider than normal therefore weakening it from the perpendicular.

All stances, upright, low, crouched, etc. are suceptible to take downs, just some are better off than others. I personally dont believe there is any stance that can prevent a take down or even hinder it considerably. The stance you choose should be a stance that allows you to be mobile and defend yourself.

[Traditional-Fist]

I personally dont believe there is any stance that can prevent a take down or even hinder it considerably. The stance you choose should be a stance that allows you to be mobile and defend yourself.

I am not talking about preventing a takedown....I am talking about delaying it.

[Sam]

thats what the "hinder it considerably" was about - i dont believe a stance can have that much effect, simply because stance are only strong through 2 planes, so the third plane will always be weak.

[Bong-laap]

Sevenstar,

I believe that we are entering the realm of opinions here. However, as far has hitting the temple example is concerned what I am trying to get across is hitting someone on the temple is more likely to have leathal consequences than hitting him in the jaw. If my training is aimed at hitting the temple (and other such targets) then it is consequently absorbed by my muscle memory/subconscious then I do not see any reason to add what I consider to be an irrelevant dimension to my training when I can use the time and effort to better and improve everything else that I need to learn and absorbe in Wing Chun.

I would further argue that many, but of course, not all traditionalists who cannot "fight" have waisted their time in watered down "traditional styles".

Sevenstar wrote:

"you're really not watering down anything, especially not from a wing chun standpoint."

I believe that your definition of Wing Chun is VERY different from the Wing Chun that I practise.

Out of interest 'Traditional Fist' who is you're Sifu/linaege?

[elbows_and_knees]

sub-grappler's post is dead on.

[Adonis]

I think the UFC has had a great impact on martial arts training. I seen alot of traditional schools employ bjj or some form of grappling to compensate for the lack of knowledge in those area's.

as well as you see the simple moves in mauy thai, boxing, and other arts, were it skills are tested with other partners, moving out of the way blocking and countering each other.

traditional styles may emply the same moves but not in the same way because the timing and distance is off. Like the step forward punch that is commonly used by a partner in trainiing were they step with say a right foot and punch with the right hand. as appostd to step with a jap an acrooss. I seen body machaics off were they don't get used ot the full abalities of there body. because they are focused on the look of there style. stances need to look like this and what not. instead of developing the concepts and getting there body to do it. don't matter the stance it matters your ability to keep on balance and generate power in your techniques that is effective and to make it such it has to be combined with good distance and timing awareness.

a good point to illustrate if any one is interestead just shoot me an e-mial and I will send you a clip of a traditional "deep stance" karate-ka. figthint a bjj student. You see the tradition of the focus on goign to the tradional stance of the punch hand out and the other back at the waist.

that training method is fine to get across certain points or concepts to a begging student but then it should and need to be changed later on were you have a better guard protecting your self and a better stance that can do both keep you in balance and mobility.

like the idea of staying on the balls of the feet staying moveable but when you hit your settle into your base driving power by pushing off the ball of the back foot throwing a rear punch.

just some examples. but people are to locked on tradition (the look) of the style to really improve in there performace.

I

[Adonis]

same good post. your right stance is only strong in two planes but there points where you can feel out the base and moment of your oppoent and so you keep movign and adjusting the foot work to keep your balance to where they take you if say they are ussing more upper body clinch type take down.

but if some one dosn't have the grappling experience in those scerio's they will get taken down.

[Sam]

thats the point - there's no particular stance, only stance trainign and adaptation will help....

[Menjo]

It actually gave me a more positive view towards shotokan, after i was able to defeat a couple of fighters at my muay thai gym with it.