Did UFC change the way of looking at trad KungFu and Karate?

[Traditional-Fist]

I think you are tarnishing Royce's achievements.

I believe that you have misunderstood my post.

The point of what I have wrote is not Royce, for whom I have great respect as a fighter. The criticism was the so called "traditionalists " who "represent" for whatever reason, the TMAs when they enter the various combat arenas.

Have another look at my previous post and you will see that there was no disrespect shown to Royce Gracie.

[Muaythaiboxer]

i believe that no art is better for self defence but there are arts more suted for ring combat exp (muaythat,Bjj,boxing)

[MMACHAMP]

i read your post....by saying the TMA fighters that Royce fought werent true masters it greatly reduces his achievement....then it just means he beat some guys who pretended to be masters.

[Traditional-Fist]

i read your post....by saying the TMA fighters that Royce fought werent true masters it greatly reduces his achievement....then it just means he beat some guys who pretended to be masters.

I have not seen all of Royce's fights to make any comments that would reduce his achievements.

My point was about the particular fight that I had seen. I went further and said that many people who claim to represent TMA's such as karate and kung fu in NHB contests, do not have the proficiency to do so, i.e. Having practised kung fu for 2 years in god knows what school and then going on to pumping muscles, does not usually qualify one as a true kung fu exponent.

I am not saying this because these "traditionalists" represented kung fu and lost. I would have been as critical if they had one their NHB contests because they would still be misrepresenting themselves.

Further more I know for a fact that Royce has beaten experts in other arts. I just doubt if there were many true traditionalists among them. They might have even been one or two, who knows. I am sure he is capable of doing so. If anyone knows of any please post a link.

What I am saying that most fighters who claim to be Kung Fu masters and who enter UFC, are not what they claim to be. This unfortunately holds true for most Kung Fu "masters" outside the NHB arena as well.

[MMACHAMP]

thats probably true because a kung fu master wouldnt compete in it....its violent. That being said though....after i had trained 2 years in bjj it gave me a huge huge huge almost definate edge over any fight.

[kusojiji]

thats probably true because a kung fu master wouldnt compete in it....its violent.

This attitude seems to be much more prevalent in the West than in China in my experience.

[Traditional-Fist]

Usually true kungfu masters don't go out looking for violence, eventhough I am sure that there have been exceptions.

However if violence does come their way they will know how to handle it. Historically this has been through political conflict and encounters with criminals, and of course challengers.

[SubGrappler]

Not so long ago I saw a video clip of "kung fu expert" who represented the Shaolin Five Animal style getting his butt kicked by one of the Gracies. He had no kung fu stances as he was bouncing like a boxer/TKD stylist. There did not seem to be anything that looked remotely like kung fu, specially the Five Animales system, not unless they have added the Kangaroo technique of bouncing yourself to oblivion, without my knowledge.

Of course what people see is "kung fu man defeated by Mr Gracie". Their conclusion? All those traditional training methods and forms don't actually work.

Wrong conclusion..

I know exactly what fight you're speaking of- Its on the Gracies in Action tape- the kung fu fighter is Jason Delucia, and I doubt you'll find a better fighter than him who's labeled themselves Kung Fu

http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterid=22

Hes an active fighter, and can be found somewhere around here on the web, I dont care to look into the matter that deeply- Look for him and kung fu/ aikido online and he'll show up rather fast.

The reason you see him light on his feet is because thats how you have to be in a fight. A deep rooted stance means you're extremely suceptible to takedowns (i.e. you're unable to sprawl). This is what happened in almost every early MMA fight between a grappler and a striker- in order to throw a knockout blow, you have to have a strong base and root your feet in the ground. It is at this precise moment that a grappler has the opportunity to grab hold of your legs/hips.

Royce won that fight because his ground skills were vastly superior to Delucias and he succeeded in taking the fight to the ground. Jason does have 33 wins to 19 losses in his professional career, which is a record to be proud of (he must be doing something right).

[Traditional-Fist]

I know exactly what fight you're speaking of- Its on the Gracies in Action tape- the kung fu fighter is Jason Delucia, and I doubt you'll find a better fighter than him who's labeled themselves Kung Fu

That is my problem with many of these people. They can "label" themselves whatever they want but they are what they are....Jack of all trades.

KungFu is not a label. It is an art that takes many years of dedicated practise to master. It is not a system which one should "throw in a pile" with a half a dozen other MA's just to enhance his curriculum. There is no problem in training another art as well as kung fu as long as one has mastered his kung fu first, and I am very sorry Jason Delucia is no kung fu master.

Hes an active fighter, and can be found somewhere around here on the web, I dont care to look into the matter that deeply- Look for him and kung fu/ aikido online and he'll show up rather fast.

The reason you see him light on his feet is because thats how you have to be in a fight. A deep rooted stance means you're extremely suceptible to takedowns (i.e. you're unable to sprawl). This is what happened in almost every early MMA fight between a grappler and a striker- in order to throw a knockout blow, you have to have a strong base and root your feet in the ground. It is at this precise moment that a grappler has the opportunity to grab hold of your legs/hips.

Deep rooted KUNG FU stance means that one will not be easilly uprooted/takendown,etc...i.e. The takedown will take a little longer to accomplish, if at all. It also means that a powerful (kung fu) blow can be delivered by the exponent during the "delay" that will occur during a takedown attempt.

In traditional kung fu schools one does not advance unless one has mastered the stances. Exponents use kungfu stances to fight and you would be surprised at how mobile they can be.

Royce won that fight because his ground skills were vastly superior to Delucias and he succeeded in taking the fight to the ground.

and because Jason did not do much when he was standing either.

Certainly nothing that looked like Shaolin Five Animales kung fu. I did not see any Tiger Claw techniques nor any Snake, Crane, Leopard and certainly not Dragon. Only the mysterious Bouncing Kangaroo style.

Of course I am not forgetting that Royce Gracie is a fantastic fighter.

Jason does have 33 wins to 19 losses in his professional career, which is a record to be proud of (he must be doing something right).

He may be a good fighter but certainly not a good Kung Fu fighter, that is my only point

[username7]

My beef with that video?

He was no KF Master. Not in any shape, way, or form. I watched that video and saw nothing resembling Kung Fu. Period.

Worse? Read his website. He now refers to himself as "sempai", which is a Korean term, and teaches Korean styles! Combat Aikido. https://www.jasondelucia.com No way would I consider this gentleman a "Kung Fu Master". He used an obscure style to try and make a name for himself, and is now marketing himself as some Korean stylist.