Did UFC change the way of looking at trad KungFu and Karate?

[Treebranch]

This my answer to the original question on this post. No. I think coming from a San Soo background I always felt UFC wasn't gathering enough great martial artists for whatever reason with the exception of a few that have shaped UFC to what it is today. I always felt and wished a San Soo expert would have entered the ring back in the early days. It would have been great!

[EternalRage]

Can you say that chinese chinnan (qinan) is something like Bjj?

Definitely not. BJJ is submission grappling. Chin Na is joint locking, tendon ripping, bone breaking stuff. While BJJ may incorporate similar techniques for submission, it is mainly groundwork.

[fangshi]

Can you say that chinese chinnan (qinan) is something like Bjj?

If you were to compare chin na to to anything it would be more like Aikido than anything .

[yireses]

Ok but Chin nan (qinan) also has grappling techniques, its not only wrist techniques, it has more then that.

[SevenStar]

doesn't matter. standing locks don't directly apply to the ground. Also, chin na is not a system of it's own - it's integrated into other styles, meaning that you will not focus only on the grappling that you learn. bjj is focused on one thing. To try and translate chin na to the ground would be to try and re-invent the wheel. It's true strength is it's standing locking, not any groud work that it may/may not have, depending on whom you train with. There is a chinese style called dog boxing that's not common, but does do ground grappling - perhaps you can liken it to bjj - it has similarities but isn't the same.

Edited May 6, 2005 by SevenStar

[SevenStar]

This my answer to the original question on this post. No. I think coming from a San Soo background I always felt UFC wasn't gathering enough great martial artists for whatever reason with the exception of a few that have shaped UFC to what it is today. I always felt and wished a San Soo expert would have entered the ring back in the early days. It would have been great!

none of the san soo guys I've talked to do any sort of real sparring or contact training. No groundwork either. That being the case, a san soo guy would get murdered in an MMA venue. He would have to alter his training some to have a real chance.

[SevenStar]

I am not making any excuses. I fight when a fight comes to me and when I have no other choice. You may not do it for medals, but many do. I am competitive in nature but regarding things that I think are relevant to my way of life.

I'm not saying YOU are making an excuse. I'm saying what you said sounds like a typical excuse. As I said, competing isn't for everyone, Although I feel all MA should at least once.

I know many traditionalists who have never competed but when given no choice will fight very effectively.

we all do. I also know many who have gotten hurt, because the real thing wasn't anything like they expected.

In my school we rarely use the opponents jaw or boney facial areas as targets. If a boney area is targeted on the head then it is usually the temple. We train to hit the weakest areas as powerfully as possible. The object and the mindset is to finish the encounter as quickly and as efficiently as possible.

The jaw was an example - something you see in sport fighting. The technique is really irrelenant. My point is that TMA claim they train to end a fight quickly and more efficiently, but if my strike ends the encounter just as fast, what does it matter whether I hit him in the jaw or the temple? Either way, it's over.

I personally see it as irrelevant and this may be due to the style of Wing Chun that I practise and the way I practise it. In short why should I waist time WATERING DOWN what I have learnt and continue learning, just to "fight" in competitions, specially when what I have learnt has served me very well in the few occassions when I have dad to defend myself .

you're really not watering down anything, especially not from a wing chun standpoint.

[Traditional-Fist]

Sevenstar,

I believe that we are entering the realm of opinions here. However, as far has hitting the temple example is concerned what I am trying to get across is hitting someone on the temple is more likely to have leathal consequences than hitting him in the jaw. If my training is aimed at hitting the temple (and other such targets) then it is consequently absorbed by my muscle memory/subconscious then I do not see any reason to add what I consider to be an irrelevant dimension to my training when I can use the time and effort to better and improve everything else that I need to learn and absorbe in Wing Chun.

I would further argue that many, but of course, not all traditionalists who cannot "fight" have waisted their time in watered down "traditional styles".

Sevenstar wrote:

"you're really not watering down anything, especially not from a wing chun standpoint."

I believe that your definition of Wing Chun is VERY different from the Wing Chun that I practise.

[Traditional-Fist]

Chin-na can be used in ground fighting and very effectively I might add.

If the fight is taken to the ground there are many kungfu techniques that can be adapted to ground fighting and they include Chin-na, which bye the way is easier to adapt to ground fighting than some of the other techniques in kungfu.

My own kung fu sifu has used Chin-na successfully on the ground.

[Treebranch]

This my answer to the original question on this post. No. I think coming from a San Soo background I always felt UFC wasn't gathering enough great martial artists for whatever reason with the exception of a few that have shaped UFC to what it is today. I always felt and wished a San Soo expert would have entered the ring back in the early days. It would have been great!

none of the san soo guys I've talked to do any sort of real sparring or contact training. No groundwork either. That being the case, a san soo guy would get murdered in an MMA venue. He would have to alter his training some to have a real chance.

Not the guys I know. Besides you are right about altering their "Game".