Did UFC change the way of looking at trad KungFu and Karate?

[SevenStar]

I and many other traditionalists do not practise to win competitions and medals, for us that is irrelevant to what we do and not because "our technique is too deadly" - eventhought it probably is.

that sounds like a similar excuse. Many traditional stylists assume that we compete for medals. It's not true. I don't even keep my medals - I give them to my parents, because my mother likes to display them. I compete for me. Not for medals or to prove anything to anyone.

Trying to re-adapt this training to the competition arena requires unnecessary effort and takes us, the practioners away from the essence ( including the quick finish techniques) of the art and thus complicates the learning process required for the its mastery. This is a big price to pay for something that in my school is regarded as irrelevant for growth in kungfu.

If I throw a cross and knock someone out, what's the difference? It is indeed a quick finish technique. and such techniques are easier to master, so I fail to see where it would complicate things... as for relevancy, I posted how it is relevant in my above post - I believe that all MA should enter the ring at least once, for the benefits it provides.

[fangshi]

I think that the UFC mostly changed the pure combat fighting systems and sport combat more than anything else . And in my opinion is a great thing . Those who wish to train for the above mentioned purposes now have a comprehensive and battle tested avenue in which to follow . These systems practise trainning methods that are speciffically geared towards their goals . 20 years ago a person wishing to learn to fight in a UFC fashion would have had to goto many different schools and then was basically left on his own to put these things together and test the viability of it . Now we have many schools that teach combonations of muay tai judo ju jitsu and others in one system and a tough testing ground in which you can test and advance your skills . To me that is progress .

Not to say that there are not traditional systems that are comprehensive and battle tested because obviously there are . Being the traditionalist that I am I will leave that other stuff to those who prefer it and I will study the traditions and culture that have been passed down to me by my honored teachers . I firmly believe that there are many people who still relish the taditional and from what I see there are many avenues to train in this way as well .

Now for the " too deadly to spar or compete " thing . I think that it not so much the technique that is so dangerous but the practitioner that is not controlled enough to use it that is the danger .

[Traditional-Fist]

I am not making any excuses. I fight when a fight comes to me and when I have no other choice. You may not do it for medals, but many do. I am competitive in nature but regarding things that I think are relevant to my way of life.

I am not saying that competing does not have its benefits when it comes to fighting, however I do not believe that it is a necessity but rather a choice for some martial artists.

I know many traditionalists who have never competed but when given no choice will fight very effectively.

When I have had to fight I have used the techniques that I have practised for long hours e.g. block move in and punch the neck simultaneously and follow up until I don't need to. In my school we rarely use the opponents jaw or boney facial areas as targets. If a boney area is targeted on the head then it is usually the temple. We train to hit the weakest areas as powerfully as possible. The object and the mindset is to finish the encounter as quickly and as efficiently as possible.

To conclude, those who like to compete then they should and good luck to them. If their usual training does not make them effective fighters then maybe they need the competition experience to fill in the gaps and improve their fighting ability.

I personally see it as irrelevant and this may be due to the style of Wing Chun that I practise and the way I practise it. In short why should I waist time WATERING DOWN what I have learnt and continue learning, just to "fight" in competitions, specially when what I have learnt has served me very well in the few occassions when I have dad to defend myself .

[Traditional-Fist]

fangshi,

Good post.

[EternalRage]

Fang shi, I meant that "too deadly to compete" is an excuse some people make to justify their not sparring out of fear, ego, etc etc (and it wasn't directed at anyone either, just a general comment about some of the attitudes of martial artists).

I personally see it as irrelevant and this may be due to the style of Wing Chun that I practise and the way I practise it. In short why should I waist time WATERING DOWN what I have learnt and continue learning, just to "fight" in competitions, specially when what I have learnt has served me very well in the few occassions when I have dad to defend myself .

If you don't feel like competing, then ok for you, you have your own goals. I would just like to say that being versatile and being able to fight in different environments and scenarios is not watering down your skills. In fact to have that sort of control over your technique is very very hard. Defending yourself in a self defense situation often involves someone who doesn't know what you're doing in an environment where there are no rules to observe, hence strategy isn't as much of an issue compared to a situation where you have to spar someone who has seen techniques similar to yours and there are rules that set the stage.

As I have posted before, I believe true skill comes in versatility and being flexible in terms of how you use your skills. If you can fight UFC/NHB rules, kickboxing rules, no rules, and even something as extreme as Olympic TKD point sparring rules and still do well... that is true skill. That is (I hate to do this because its been SO overdone and he's probably rolling in his grave now) like being water.

[Ali]

In Hong Kong, I would say more people would give a look or even

cross training with BJJ. More ground fight would be learnt that way.

This is not apply all martial artist in Hong Kong but many have changed their mind.

[Traditional-Fist]

EternalRage,

As you implied it all depends on ones own goals. For me versatility gained by adapting to fighting under different competition rules is irrelevant. It would distorte and take me away from the goal of finishing a fight as quickly and as efficiently as possible which is the essence of Wing Chun (and many other kung fu and karate styles as well).

However, other martial artists have different goals and necessities and will even benefit from such competitions. Sometimes these tournaments may fill in gaps that exist in their usual training and help them improve as fighters.

[EternalRage]

EternalRage,

As you implied it all depends on ones own goals. For me versatility gained by adapting to fighting under different competition rules is irrelevant. It would distorte and take me away from the goal of finishing a fight as quickly and as efficiently as possible which is the essence of Wing Chun (and many other kung fu and karate styles as well).

However, other martial artists have different goals and necessities and will even benefit from such competitions. Sometimes these tournaments may fill in gaps that exist in their usual training and help them improve as fighters.

As I posted, that's perfectly fine if you don't want to. The only thing I really disagreed with was your statement about it being watered down.

By Traditional Wing Chun, do you mean Cheung lineage Wing Chun?

[yireses]

Can you say that chinese chinnan (qinan) is something like Bjj?

[SevenStar]

Can you say that chinese chinnan (qinan) is something like Bjj?

no.